Since we had the topic of winemaking pop up recently I decided to throw another wine kit in the fermenter.  It was one of the 15L Brew King kits, and so 10 minutes later I was done and thinking thus…. I always have made white wines and might try some red wines.  Would it be advisable to have separate plastic primary fermenters for the reds?  I know the whites really leave no aromatics in the plastic, but my concern was whether the reds would stain and perhaps leave aromatics behind. Cheers, Mike

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Since we had the topic of winemaking pop up recently I decided to throw another wine kit in the fermenter.  It was one of the 15L Brew King kits, and so 10 minutes later I was done and thinking thus…. I always have made white wines and might try some red wines.  Would it be advisable to have separate plastic primary fermenters for the reds?  I know the whites really leave no aromatics in the plastic, but my concern was whether the reds would stain and perhaps leave aromatics behind.

I wouldn’t worry about it. I primary ferment my reds in 32 gallon plastic containers – they clean up easily and have no residual odor. If the wine was left in contact for an extended period there might be a problem, but pimary fermentation (at least with whole fruit) is only about a week. I’ve been using the same containers for 4 years and they’re not stained.

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I use the same 15 gal plastic carboy for beer, mead, cider, red/white wines et. al. without any trouble.  I just soak in bleach between batches. – Bill Success lies in achieving the top of the food chain. — Jubal Harshaw, 1904-

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Since we had the topic of winemaking pop up recently I decided to throw another wine kit in the fermenter.  It was one of the 15L Brew King kits, and so 10 minutes later I was done and thinking thus…. I always have made white wines and might try some red wines.  Would it be advisable to have separate plastic primary fermenters for the reds?  I know the whites really leave no aromatics in the plastic, but my concern was whether the reds would stain and perhaps leave aromatics behind. Cheers, Mike

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Mike, I use a 7.5 gallon primary for the wines. It’s plastic but has not been stained yet. With some of the really dark reds, it has retained the yeastwine odor for a week or so but no bad tastes have been released into other wines. I just make sure the primary has enough time to loose the smell before using it again. I’m sure a quick bleach bath would do it too if you couldn’t wait it out… If it even has a smell left over. Jon. —      Come visit us on the web! http://www.largescale-trains.com     Home of the JJ&C Railroad

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Since we had the topic of winemaking pop up recently I decided to throw another wine kit in the fermenter.  It was one of the 15L Brew King kits, and so 10 minutes later I was done and thinking thus…. I always have made white wines and might try some red wines.  Would it be advisable to have separate plastic primary fermenters for the reds?  I know the whites really leave no aromatics in the plastic, but my concern was whether the reds would stain and perhaps leave aromatics behind. Cheers, Mike

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Actually, my plastic bucket tends to retain more odor from batches of beer than batches of wine. No staining from either, yet. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Mike, I use a 7.5 gallon primary for the wines. It’s plastic but has not been stained yet. With some of the really dark reds, it has retained the yeastwine odor for a week or so but no bad tastes have been released into other wines. I just make sure the primary has enough time to loose the smell before using it again. I’m sure a quick bleach bath would do it too if you couldn’t wait it out… If it even has a smell left over. Jon. —     Come visit us on the web! http://www.largescale-trains.com    Home of the JJ&C Railroad Since we had the topic of winemaking pop up recently I decided to throw another wine kit in the fermenter.  It was one of the 15L Brew King kits, and so 10 minutes later I was done and thinking thus…. I always have made white wines and might try some red wines.  Would it be advisable to have separate plastic primary fermenters for the reds?  I know the whites really leave no aromatics in the plastic, but my concern was whether the reds would stain and perhaps leave aromatics behind. Cheers, Mike

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Actually, my plastic bucket tends to retain more odor from batches of beer than batches of wine. No staining from either, yet.

Beer will eventually stain a fermenter, but I never found it would affect the subsequent batches.  You can of course soak in a bleach solution and remove any staining if when it happens it bothers you…;) Cheers, Mike

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I cannot get rid of my stains or odors even from overnight soaks in bleach, and in high concentrations.

What are ya brewin’…crude oil…;) It could be the type of plastic… Cheers, Mike

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I normally don’t bother trying to remove the odor, since I don’t notice any effect on later batches.  I do give my buckets a deep cleaning after several batches, though, and Oxiclean definitely works better than bleach.  I use 5 scoops for 5 gallons, and hot water. John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I cannot get rid of my stains or odors even from overnight soaks in bleach, and in high concentrations.

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Recently I bought a couple of 19 litre buckets of varietal juice from a place in Ontario, the price was good, bought a White Zin and a Muscat bucket. Expose the juice to air, warm it up, and it will be fermenting before long. Fairly affordable, easy, no kits to mess with. The only unfortunate thing is that since the must is already set to automatically ferment, I didn’t know if reserving some juice and keeping it cold or frozen would have benefitted me for sweetening it later with that same juice.  So I didn’t.  Right now there’s a bit of a funny bite to the taste of the must, after it’s almost fermented all the way to dryness.  I need to stir the batches to release the CO2, and perhaps some of the taste is from the fact that I see these as sweeter wines and they taste so dry right now.  They I’ve treated the 5 gallons with 1/4 tsp. Pot. metabi, and 1.5 tsp of sorbate…. What would be the best way to sweeten these batches?  With the sugar syrup? I was planning on helping the muscat with some welches white grape juice, adding natural juice and sugar for the sweetning.  What about the white zin? any suggestions?  anyone have any experiences with such juices? thanks. Rick Vanderwal fremont

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Rick, I am also from Ontario and make wine from juice purchased as it is harvested and settled in the Niagara Region.  Making wine from juice can be as challenging as making it from fresh grapes.  The only difference is that you don’t have to crush the grapes.  Making wine from a kit is a little easier in that it is generally a recipe approach and the instructions are very basic.  When making wine from fresh grapes or juice there are numerous options, some of these options achieve the same thing in different ways, others result in a different style and still others can be disastrous. The following matters are especially critical: 1) protecting your must/wine from excessive O2. 2) protecting your must/wine from spoilage organisms 3) ensuring your approach gives you the style of wine you want 4) stabilizing and clearing your wine There are of course many other issues but the aforementioned are important ones. The first point is achieved by keeping your wine exposed to a minimum of oxygen by racking into containers once fermentation slows down and keeping all containers topped up.  Also reasonable levels of sulfite are important after the alcoholic fermentation is finished and this is important for achieving the second point but also helpful in achieving point #1 as well since sulfite provides some anti-oxidant effect.  The third point is achieved mainly by the variety of wine, the way it is handled, particularly with respect to a malo-lactic fermentation (MLF) that you may or may not want depending of the style of wine desired, and finally by the sweetness level from totally dry to quite sweet.  The final point is important as your wine should be acceptably clear and stable before bottling.  Stability is primarily but not exclusively a matter of an appropriate sulfite level to prevent spoilage and a MLF in your bottles. I would suggest you review a good winemaking site such as: www.wineloverspage.com/cgi-bin/links/linkgroup.cgi?lt=2&cat=11 this site will give you several winemaking sites, one of which is an excellent on line manual for winemaking http://home.att.net/~lumeisenman from an outstanding winemaker and gentleman, Lum Eisenman who is a regular contributor to this group as well as from Jack Kellar who is also a regular contributor on this newsgroup and is an excellent resource site at http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/index.asp with especially good information of non-grape wines. Good luck, Glen Duff

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Recently I bought a couple of 19 litre buckets of varietal juice from a place in Ontario, the price was good, bought a White Zin and a Muscat bucket. Expose the juice to air, warm it up, and it will be fermenting before long. Fairly affordable, easy, no kits to mess with. The only unfortunate thing is that since the must is already set to automatically ferment, I didn’t know if reserving some juice and keeping it cold or frozen would have benefitted me for sweetening it later with that same juice.  So I didn’t.  Right now there’s a bit of a funny bite to the taste of the must, after it’s almost fermented all the way to dryness.  I need to stir the batches to release the CO2, and perhaps some of the taste is from the fact that I see these as sweeter wines and they taste so dry right now.  They I’ve treated the 5 gallons with 1/4 tsp. Pot. metabi, and 1.5 tsp of sorbate…. What would be the best way to sweeten these batches?  With the sugar syrup? I was planning on helping the muscat with some welches white grape juice, adding natural juice and sugar for the sweetning.  What about the white zin? any suggestions?  anyone have any experiences with such juices? thanks. Rick Vanderwal fremont

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Hobby Lobby.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – what is a good place to purchae marbles in US? — Jenya Computers are useless. They can only give answers.-Pablo Picasso The marbles work great on small batches — I use them routinely with 4 liter jugs; haven’t tried them with 5- or 6-gal carboys. bit about the process. The most innovative thing I read was to get some glass marbles and use them to take up the available space instead of topping up with anything else. Joe I had this idea while reading Rick Vanderwal’s comment below where he wanted to top up and sweeten but did not have saved juice.  Typically I see two approaches here.  Use some saved juice or add sugar water.  What about using other fruit concentrate.  If you did not mind adding a little cherry or blackberry character to the wine, what about using a bit of fruit concentrate, even store bought concentrated fruit juice.  It would probably have sorbate already in it which would not hurt anything and may be a help at this point. Of course you would want to avoid concentrates with artificial flavors. Comments? Ray

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I think that’s an excellent idea, but I imagine it could add some stubborn cloudiness if added post-fermentation. Depends on the clarity of the concentrate I suppose. I might be trying this very thing upcoming, as I will be bottling a batch in a few days and I want it to be a lightly sweet wine. I always sweeten by adding a cup of water to to a cup and a half of sugar in a glass measuring cup, and microwave it for just over two minutes on high. It *just* comes to a boil, and is a nice, clear, sort of vaguely amberish syrup when stirred well. I then add enough of this syrup to the batch to make it *almost* to my tastes, fill a few bottles, then sweeten right to my tastes, and fill the rest. Maybe this time what I will do is add some undiluted concentrate to a glassful and observe it’s clarity. If it looks good, and tastes good, I likely will do the whole batch that way. Note I will be using grape concentrate, but I think there’s potential there to use a myriad of fruit types for special characters. One could even steep fresh fruit pieces in the wine say overnight or for a couple of days. The nice thing is that since fermentation is already well past, the flavor of whatever you’d add would only be influenced by the other characters already present, rather than possibly being heavily altered by the fermentation process. Maybe rather similar to the method of the homemade schnapps recipes one finds on the web using fruit steeped in vodka, just obviously not as "quick and dirty".  - NR reportedly seen on the White House lawn holding a large picket sign and screeching the following: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I had this idea while reading Rick Vanderwal’s comment below where he wanted to top up and sweeten but did not have saved juice.  Typically I see two approaches here.  Use some saved juice or add sugar water.  What about using other fruit concentrate.  If you did not mind adding a little cherry or blackberry character to the wine, what about using a bit of fruit concentrate, even store bought concentrated fruit juice.  It would probably have sorbate already in it which would not hurt anything and may be a help at this point. Of course you would want to avoid concentrates with artificial flavors. Comments? Ray

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Thanks everybody for the comments.  I think I sent a confused signal.  I was really interested in the idea of using fruit juice to sweeten rather than saving back some of the original juice the wine was made from.  My use of the term "topping up" was not the proper term and misled many.  Sorry. Anyway, all the comments were interesting. Ray

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The marbles work great on small batches — I use them routinely with 4 liter jugs; haven’t tried them with 5- or 6-gal carboys.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – bit about the process. The most innovative thing I read was to get some glass marbles and use them to take up the available space instead of topping up with anything else. Joe I had this idea while reading Rick Vanderwal’s comment below where he wanted to top up and sweeten but did not have saved juice.  Typically I see two approaches here.  Use some saved juice or add sugar water.  What about using other fruit concentrate.  If you did not mind adding a little cherry or blackberry character to the wine, what about using a bit of fruit concentrate, even store bought concentrated fruit juice.  It would probably have sorbate already in it which would not hurt anything and may be a help at this point. Of course you would want to avoid concentrates with artificial flavors. Comments? Ray

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what is a good place to purchae marbles in US? — Jenya Computers are useless. They can only give answers.-Pablo Picasso

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The marbles work great on small batches — I use them routinely with 4 liter jugs; haven’t tried them with 5- or 6-gal carboys. bit about the process. The most innovative thing I read was to get some glass marbles and use them to take up the available space instead of topping up with anything else. Joe I had this idea while reading Rick Vanderwal’s comment below where he wanted to top up and sweeten but did not have saved juice.  Typically I see two approaches here.  Use some saved juice or add sugar water.  What about using other fruit concentrate.  If you did not mind adding a little cherry or blackberry character to the wine, what about using a bit of fruit concentrate, even store bought concentrated fruit juice.  It would probably have sorbate already in it which would not hurt anything and may be a help at this point. Of course you would want to avoid concentrates with artificial flavors. Comments? Ray

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I have been preparing to try wine making and have been reading quite a bit about the process. The most innovative thing I read was to get some glass marbles and use them to take up the available space instead of topping up with anything else. Joe – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I had this idea while reading Rick Vanderwal’s comment below where he wanted to top up and sweeten but did not have saved juice.  Typically I see two approaches here.  Use some saved juice or add sugar water.  What about using other fruit concentrate.  If you did not mind adding a little cherry or blackberry character to the wine, what about using a bit of fruit concentrate, even store bought concentrated fruit juice.  It would probably have sorbate already in it which would not hurt anything and may be a help at this point. Of course you would want to avoid concentrates with artificial flavors. Comments? Ray

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One should always tope up after racking. If one topes up before racking, one may become inebriated, and handling large, heavy glass containers in that condition is very unsafe!  :-) Send email to jsachs177 at earthlink dot net.

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Thank you for that bit of wisdom.  It probably will not protect me from inebriation but maybe it will protect me from a bad back. Ray

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One should always tope up after racking. If one topes up before racking, one may become inebriated, and handling large, heavy glass containers in that condition is very unsafe!  :-) Send email to jsachs177 at earthlink dot net.

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I had this idea while reading Rick Vanderwal’s comment below where he wanted to top up and sweeten but did not have saved juice.  Typically I see two approaches here.  Use some saved juice or add sugar water.  What about using other fruit concentrate.  If you did not mind adding a little cherry or blackberry character to the wine, what about using a bit of fruit concentrate, even store bought concentrated fruit juice.  It would probably have sorbate already in it which would not hurt anything and may be a help at this point. Of course you would want to avoid concentrates with artificial flavors. Comments? Ray

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Hello, Sorry for being rude, but I am posting anonymously as I am afraid of getting ‘SPAM’ but I hope that you will all respond to my question anyway. Why can you not make wine just using fruit, or fruit juice, sugar and yeast? It seems that all the advice that I have read on line, require the inclusion of a variety of seeming undesirable and sometimes poisonous chemicals into the wine Must? Then I also note that most bottles of wine here in California, are marked with warning labels indicating danger to women who are pregnant, and also that fact that the wine contains Sulfites or Sulfates.  So why add the chemicals that seemly do not really need to be there. Thank you, Must Starting  :-)

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Hello, Sorry for being rude, but I am posting anonymously as I am afraid of getting ‘SPAM’ but I hope that you will all respond to my question anyway.

Doesn’t look very anonymous to me. Why can you not make wine just using fruit, or fruit juice, sugar and

yeast? You can.  Some do. It seems that all the advice that I have read on line, require the inclusion of a variety of seeming undesirable and sometimes poisonous chemicals into the wine Must? Then I also note that most bottles of wine here in California, are marked with warning labels indicating danger to women who are pregnant, and also that fact that the wine contains Sulfites or Sulfates.  So why add the chemicals that seemly do not really need to be there.

The warning labels are mainly a caution against the alcohol itself, the consumption of which by pregnant women has been responsible for fetal alcohol syndrome.  The warning about sulfites is for those who are allergic to their presence in food, although the actual content in wines is very low and poses no risk for most people. The main reason for adding sulfite to wine is to protect it against spoilage by microorganisms.  Secondary reasons are to improve wine’s flavor and extend its shelf life.  Sulfites have been used for centuries to assure a quality product, and are quite safe in the small amounts employed in normal winemaking practice. Tom S

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, Sorry for being rude, but I am posting anonymously as I am afraid of getting ‘SPAM’ but I hope that you will all respond to my question anyway. Why can you not make wine just using fruit, or fruit juice, sugar and yeast? It seems that all the advice that I have read on line, require the inclusion of a variety of seeming undesirable and sometimes poisonous chemicals into the wine Must? Then I also note that most bottles of wine here in California, are marked with warning labels indicating danger to women who are pregnant, and also that fact that the wine contains Sulfites or Sulfates.  So why add the chemicals that seemly do not really need to be there. Thank you, Must Starting  :-)

Yes you can. It’ll limit your choice of fruit greatly to medium to high acid fruit and low in pectin. Something like blackberries. And you must pasteurize or boil the must before putting in the yeast, otherwise all kind of nasty things can consume the wine-to-be before the yeast can get started… And don’t expect it to be a storage wine if you don’t sulphite the wine before bottling. Start exploring some winemaking sites for the reason why people add chemicals, like Jack Keller’s site at http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/index.asp BTW, I think most chemicals are derived from natural sources, if that makes you feel better about it. Ren

WOW !!, what a fast response by several.  Thanks for the input, most seem to agree that steaming may be the problem and a floor corker will help.  I have been talking to my brew/wine shop about the Italian floor corker, it will be next purchase I make.  I have almost 100 bottles in the rack and need to do something quick, I have 10 gallons to bottle in a few weeks. I will try another method of sterilizing my corks, as they do crumble easily after steaming. Thanks again for your replies, — Joe Pape  Atlanta, GA http://www.geocities.com/aquaholic_on_lanier/MyPinballPageone.html?97… 340 "

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I will try another method of sterilizing my corks, as they do

crumble easily after steaming. Why don’t you read first the info from the following address: http://www.rjgrape.com/HandoutView.asp?HandoutID=14 Also, use the word

Okay, so as long as i can’t smell anything after, it will be okay, regarldess of staining i have bleach, PBW and star-san John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -A carboy should clean up fine. A plastic bucket may get stained, but a dilute bleach solution soak should take care of it. ben

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John, I’d be more worried after making a Lambic than after making a wine!!!! Cheers, Paul – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Okay, so as long as i can’t smell anything after, it will be okay, regarldess of staining i have bleach, PBW and star-san John A carboy should clean up fine. A plastic bucket may get stained, but a dilute bleach solution soak should take care of it. ben

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If i use a carboy or plastic bucket to make wine, will it be impossible to clean enough to use for brewing beer later? (i mean the smell etc.)

I haven’t had any problems with it yet after maybe half a dozen wines of varying kinds (raspberry, strawberry and a "second" grape wine would be the red ones). I’ve actually had more trouble getting the beer smell out of the bucket, and that just requires a soak with Straight-A or another cleanser.

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i’m sorry, i don’t follow you. Do you mean to say i will have to buy a new bucket for ales? John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If i use a carboy or plastic bucket to make wine, will it be impossible to clean enough to use for brewing beer later? (i mean the smell etc.) It will probably help!!! — Paul

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If i use a carboy or plastic bucket to make wine, will it be impossible to clean enough to use for brewing beer later? (i mean the smell etc.)

A carboy should clean up fine. A plastic bucket may get stained, but a dilute bleach solution soak should take care of it. ben

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If i use a carboy or plastic bucket to make wine, will it be impossible to clean enough to use for brewing beer later? (i mean the smell etc.)

It will probably help!!! — Paul

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It’s a red wine kit, i forgot to mention that. i have a fairly limited supply of buckets and carboys…i should really go get back the 2 plastic carboys and 2 buckets a buddy of mine ‘borrowed’ back in may…. John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If i use a carboy or plastic bucket to make wine, will it be impossible to clean enough to use for brewing beer later? (i mean the smell etc.) I have only made whites, but there is no real smell after them, and cleanup is much less than for beer. Cheers, Mike

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If i use a carboy or plastic bucket to make wine, will it be impossible to clean enough to use for brewing beer later? (i mean the smell etc.)

I have only made whites, but there is no real smell after them, and cleanup is much less than for beer. Cheers, Mike

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If i use a carboy or plastic bucket to make wine, will it be impossible to clean enough to use for brewing beer later? (i mean the smell etc.) John

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Might be a good time to re-post an article first posted by Lum back in 2001. My last thoughts on this were that it would be preferable to move in the direction of not having to filter since the wine will usually clear on it’s own and "the less you mess" the better. However, if you do decide to filter there is no evidence that its effects are noticeable  by even the best testers. Don ***** STERILE FILTRATION-SCIENCE VS MYTH by Steve Roberta Department of Viticulture & Enology University of California, Davis September 1994 The question of whether sterile filtration harms wine flavor evokes much debate and emotion. Although there is little scientific research on the question, filtration proponents rightly emphasize the financial risks incurred by producers who choose not to filter. These risks are real. Filtration proponents point out that wine flavor components are smaller than the pore size of the sterile filter membrane, and that insoluble filtrate doesn’t possess significant flavor, anyway. Thus, proponents argue that there is no reason why filtration, properly performed, should affect wine flavor. In the other camp are filtration opponents who believe they do taste a difference. They claim filtration strips wine of significant properties and flavors. However, one is hard pressed to obtain from opponents just what these properties and flavors are supposed to be. Nevertheless, they observe filtrate being removed from a wine and associate filtration with the taste difference they perceive. Thus, they conclude filtration is detrimental to wine flavor. Encouraged by our professors to decide for ourselves who is right, we recently conducted an experiment which asked the question, "does sterile filtration create changes in wine that consumers can taste?"  From a supermarket shelf we selected five well-known, unfiltered Zinfandel, Pinot Noir, and Cabernet Sauvignon – vintage 1990 to 1992; and from the UC Davis cellar, one unfiltered Pinot Noir – vintage 1984. Four bottles of each wine were combined under nitrogen to eliminate bottle variation; half of the wine was sterile filtered, the other half was not filtered but was similarly processed. Over five evenings our trained taste panel, consisting of 12 volunteer judges (none of whom were connected with the department of enology and viticulture at UC Davis) evaluated the wines by duo-trio testing. Two repetitions of each flight of each wine resulted in a mean correct response of 54%. The best correct response of any one panelist was 66.6%. There was no variance by wine, flight or panelist. guessing.  We thus conclude that the panelists could not detect a difference between filtered and unfiltered red wines, and from this can infer that there was no detectable difference in wine flavor as a result of the filtration. *****

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Louise,     I suggest you learned how to make your wine clear without filtering before you even consider filtering. The exception I would make would be if you are planning on entering the wine into a competition. Also contrary to what some might believe- filtering a cloudy wine at home is not an easy or cheap thing to do and should be avoided.      I think alot of people are confused about fining agents. Often times they are used to address a "problem", and a bi-product of their use is added wine clarity. For example: Bentonite- typically added to white and blush wines. Main purpose is hot stability and the removal of excess protein. It’s addition generally will take the slight haze out of white wines, but that is not it’s main purpose in my opinion. Time will clear most wines, but it wont necessarily make it a stable wine. If I gave you a glass of my apple wine that I just bottled you would say it is very clear, and probably would not know that I didn’t filter it. If however you put it next to a glass that I had filtered you most likely could tell the difference immediately as the filtered wine looks "polished". HTH John Dixon

Very well put John. I would add that the main reason to filter wine is to insure that all of the microbes (yeast and bacteria) have been removed creating a mircrobia stable wine.  There are also many beneficial side effects to filtration as in polishing of both the appearance and taste.   Furthermore, small particulate matter in the wine can eventually lead to reduced aromas that can develop during bottle aging.  If there are any detrimental effects from filtration (which I’ve never sited personally), the positive effects would far out way them. If you don’t test your wines with innovative techniques like judicious fining with a variety of agents, and careful filtration, you will never know whether your wine has reached it’s full potential. clyde

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Louise,     I suggest you learned how to make your wine clear without filtering before you even consider filtering. The exception I would make would be if you are planning on entering the wine into a competition. Also contrary to what some might believe- filtering a cloudy wine at home is not an easy or cheap thing to do and should be avoided.      I think alot of people are confused about fining agents. Often times they are used to address a "problem", and a bi-product of their use is added wine clarity. For example: Bentonite- typically added to white and blush wines. Main purpose is hot stability and the removal of excess protein. It’s addition generally will take the slight haze out of white wines, but that is not it’s main purpose in my opinion. Time will clear most wines, but it wont necessarily make it a stable wine. If I gave you a glass of my apple wine that I just bottled you would say it is very clear, and probably would not know that I didn’t filter it. If however you put it next to a glass that I had filtered you most likely could tell the difference immediately as the filtered wine looks "polished". HTH John Dixon

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My first wine kit has been in the carboy for 1 month now and I am wondering what everyone out there does at bottling time. I am told by my LHBS that I should filter before bottling but as I read the many posts on this newsgroup, I’ve notice that many of you don’t filter and let it sit in the carboy longer. What are the pros and cons to each? — Louise:o) http://pages.infinit.net/weez1959/

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My first wine kit has been in the carboy for 1 month now and I am wondering what everyone out there does at bottling time. I am told by my LHBS that I should filter before bottling but as I read the many posts on this newsgroup, I’ve notice that many of you don’t filter and let it sit in the carboy longer. What are the pros and cons to each? — Louise:o) http://pages.infinit.net/weez1959/

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From my reading filtering should be done on an as needed basis – if you need the wine in the bottle quickly and want no hazing or cloudy quality in the wine then filter it. If you don’t mind the haze you can bottle whenever you feel like once the wine is finished (assuming you’ve done the bulk aging you want to do). If you can though, it may be worth leaving it for a bit longer to see if anything settles out of the wine. Others may , of course, disagree with me I’m only a newbie! Warren PS – anyone in south east queensland australia know of a good place to actually get grapes? once the picking time comes I’d like to have a go at doing real grapes for a change rather than concentrate (not that concentrate has turned out to be too bad, it’s a good as any relatively cheap bottle you can get at a store!)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My first wine kit has been in the carboy for 1 month now and I am wondering what everyone out there does at bottling time. I am told by my LHBS that I should filter before bottling but as I read the many posts on this newsgroup, I’ve notice that many of you don’t filter and let it sit in the carboy longer. What are the pros and cons to each? — Louise:o) http://pages.infinit.net/weez1959/

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There are "food grade" garbage cans available. Jeff

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  They are made from petroleum which contains many poisonous chemicals. Ray

What do you think "food grade" containers are made from? Food grade does not have recycled materials that may be found in other containers, but all the plastics are made from a petroleum based material. Ed http://pages.cthome.net/edhome

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Hello, I started winemaking earlier this year, myself (haven’t tried mead). Couldn’t find a dealer anywhere close to Baton Rouge, so I ordered a near identical package at similar price from Homebrew Adventures in Charlotte, NC.  That  setup seems to be pretty typical for starter packages and will be adequate to make wine from a 6-gal kit (I’ve done three kits so far), but if you intend to make 5-gal batches you’ll need 5-gal carboys. You’ll quickly identify some specific additional equipment needs/wants, especially when you venture beyond the pre-packaged kits into making fruit wines from recipes.  In my case, I’ve added: —  a couple of smaller primary fermenters (Rubbermaid wastebaskets, 2.5-gal and 13-qt); —  clamp-on carboy handle (gives a bit more security in handling that big wet slippery jug); —  carboy brush; —  floating thermometer; —  auto-siphon; —  a second 6-gal carboy, two 5-gal carboys, numerous smaller jugs; —  drilled and solid stoppers for all carboys and jugs; —  a bunch of airlocks; —  a better corker (the plastic one with the kit works, but not well); —  a couple of fruit bags; —  18" wooden spoons; —  glass measuring cup; —  plastic measuring spoons; —  5-lb capacity kitchen scale; and maybe a few other minor items. I subsequently found that there is a little homebrewing/winemaking shop in Baton Rouge, but his inventory is pretty limited. I bought my second 6-gal carboy from him, but my 5-gal carboys are glass water jugs available from a local water company for a deposit of $11. Good luck, Bart

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I’m new to the wine-making community. I’m mostly interested in making Meads and making this Jalapeno Wine that I found a recipe for. I imagine I would be making 5 gallons at a time. There are no brewing stores in Eau Claire, WI. But I found a store online in Minneapolis that ships out brewing supplies. They are offering the following kit for $54.95 + $8.12 for postage. I was wondering if this sounds like a fair deal. Would this be a good kit for me to start making Meads and/or some wines? Is it the right size kit for making 5 gallons at a time? Would I need any additional equipment that this kit is lacking? Or are there better Beginner kits available? I found this kit at: http://www.midwestsupplies.com/wine/equip_kits.asp I guess I’m partial to this company since it’s only 90 miles from Eau Claire. Has anyone had any experience with them? Good or Bad? Thanks for any suggestions. (sorry if it’s not cool this violates some sort of "cross-posting" ethics. I figured it was on-topic to both groups.) Robert Starter Winemaking Equipment Kit Includes: 7.5 gallon plastic fermenter with lid, 6 gallon glass carboy, stoppers for each fermenter, Econolock, Bottle Brush, Wine Hydrometer, "Making Homemade Wine" book, 8 oz of One Step Cleaner, Plastic Corker, 25 Corks, Racking tube, 6 ft. of Siphon Tubing, Bottle Filler, and a Shut off

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Just a comment.  I assume you mean a plastic garbage can.  Garbage cans are not food grade.  They are meant to put garbage in.  They are made from petroleum which contains many poisonous chemicals.  Then you are putting an alcoholic beverage in it for several days or weeks.  Alcohol is a great solvent for petroleum.  Any loose chemicals in the plastic are going to be dissolved out into the wine.  And you are going to drink that cocktail? Ray – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I too, am a beginner.  I grew my own jalapenos. ( I have so many this year, I decided to try my luck at winemaking).  I bought my first kit at a local winery ( www.piwine.com ) here in Northeastern PA.  It consists of: 5 gal. carboy hydrometer potassium metabisulphate pectin enzyme 1 package of pasteur champagne yeast siphoning hose yeast nutrient airlock all for $30.85 I used a clean new garbage can for the primary. My batch is doing really well, or so I believe.  Good luck to you Hello, I’m new to the wine-making community. I’m mostly interested in making Meads and making this Jalapeno Wine that I found a recipe for. I imagine I would be making 5 gallons at a time. There are no brewing stores in Eau Claire, WI. But I found a store online in Minneapolis that ships out brewing supplies. They are offering the following kit for $54.95 + $8.12 for postage. I was wondering if this sounds like a fair deal. Would this be a good kit for me to start making Meads and/or some wines? Is it the right size kit for making 5 gallons at a time? Would I need any additional equipment that this kit is lacking? Or are there better Beginner kits available? I found this kit at: http://www.midwestsupplies.com/wine/equip_kits.asp I guess I’m partial to this company since it’s only 90 miles from Eau Claire. Has anyone had any experience with them? Good or Bad? Thanks for any suggestions. (sorry if it’s not cool this violates some sort of "cross-posting" ethics. I figured it was on-topic to both groups.) Robert Starter Winemaking Equipment Kit Includes: 7.5 gallon plastic fermenter with lid, 6 gallon glass carboy, stoppers for each fermenter, Econolock, Bottle Brush, Wine Hydrometer, "Making Homemade Wine" book, 8 oz of One Step Cleaner, Plastic Corker, 25 Corks, Racking tube, 6 ft. of Siphon Tubing, Bottle Filler, and a Shut off

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I too, am a beginner.  I grew my own jalapenos. ( I have so many this year, I decided to try my luck at winemaking).  I bought my first kit at a local winery ( www.piwine.com ) here in Northeastern PA.  It consists of: 5 gal. carboy hydrometer potassium metabisulphate pectin enzyme 1 package of pasteur champagne yeast siphoning hose yeast nutrient airlock all for $30.85 I used a clean new garbage can for the primary. My batch is doing really well, or so I believe.  Good luck to you

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I’m new to the wine-making community. I’m mostly interested in making Meads and making this Jalapeno Wine that I found a recipe for. I imagine I would be making 5 gallons at a time. There are no brewing stores in Eau Claire, WI. But I found a store online in Minneapolis that ships out brewing supplies. They are offering the following kit for $54.95 + $8.12 for postage. I was wondering if this sounds like a fair deal. Would this be a good kit for me to start making Meads and/or some wines? Is it the right size kit for making 5 gallons at a time? Would I need any additional equipment that this kit is lacking? Or are there better Beginner kits available? I found this kit at: http://www.midwestsupplies.com/wine/equip_kits.asp I guess I’m partial to this company since it’s only 90 miles from Eau Claire. Has anyone had any experience with them? Good or Bad? Thanks for any suggestions. (sorry if it’s not cool this violates some sort of "cross-posting" ethics. I figured it was on-topic to both groups.) Robert Starter Winemaking Equipment Kit Includes: 7.5 gallon plastic fermenter with lid, 6 gallon glass carboy, stoppers for each fermenter, Econolock, Bottle Brush, Wine Hydrometer, "Making Homemade Wine" book, 8 oz of One Step Cleaner, Plastic Corker, 25 Corks, Racking tube, 6 ft. of Siphon Tubing, Bottle Filler, and a Shut off

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Robert — I live in suburban Minneapolis, and buy most of my supplies from this shop (Midwest Supplies).  I haven’t had to mail-order from them, but they always seem to be doing a lot of mail-order business when I stop in.  They have a pretty good assortment of equipment and supplies, and I’ve never had any problem with anything I’ve bought from them. The kit sounds like a reasonable deal for the money.  There are other things you’ll probably want if you keep making wine, but that should be enough to start with. As other folks have pointed out, you do want to keep the carboy topped up, so you will want to either (a) make 6-gallon batches to put in the 6-gallon carboy, or (b) tell them to send you a 5-gallon carboy instead, if that’s really what you want.  They sell both, so that shouldn’t be a big issue.  Pretty much all the commercially available kits are designed for 23 liters (6 gallons US), though, so if you are thinking you may do some of those, you’d want the 6-gallon size.  If you are looking at older books, etc. regarding wine making, you may see references to 5 gallon batch sizes that actually refer to 5 imperial (British) gallons, which is pretty close to 23 liters or 6 gallons US.  Most recipes for non-grape wines are for one gallon batches. Fond as I am of Jalapeno peppers, I have to think that 6 gallons, or even 5 gallons, of Jalapeno wine would be close to a lifetime supply. I’d recommend starting with something a little less exotic.  Based on your interest in mead or the Jalapeno wine, I’d recommend a white wine kit (one of the "28 day" variety) that makes 6 gallons.  They are nearly foolproof, and produce a pretty drinkable result in a couple of months.  And you could flavor some of the wine with Jalapenos (or whatever) before you bottle it. If you’re really determined to make the Jalapeno wine, I’d suggest trying a gallon to start with.  The recipe on Jack Keller’s site is for a 1 gallon batch.  If you decide it’s the greatest thing you ever drank, you can always make another, larger batch.  Even Jack, though, says he bottled most of his Jalapeno wine in splits and even smaller bottles — this stuff is for cooking or sipping, not for quaffing. You should be able to find 1 gallon glass jugs in the grocery store (I think apple juice is still sold in them), and Midwest Supplies sells them, too.

I understand you can make some nice beer with chiles. Haven’t had a chance to try it myself. I also plan to make a gallon of the jalepeno wine (along with a couple of others, like milk wine or mead) if I can find a few free carboys…

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You should be able to find 1 gallon glass jugs in the grocery store (I think apple juice is still sold in them), and Midwest Supplies sells them, too.

About 1 gallon glass jugs,  Most apple juice has gone to plastic.  Here in TN shopping at Kroger you have to go to the health food section for cider/juice in glass jugs (think it was $6 a gallon makes a dandy cyser as well).  So don’t give up if all you see is plastic in the juice aisle.  They also have some real cute mini bottles that I use as gifts.   Another source for decorative glass gift bottles are drinks like SOBE I boil the resealable CAPS. John

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Robert — I live in suburban Minneapolis, and buy most of my supplies from this shop (Midwest Supplies).  I haven’t had to mail-order from them, but they always seem to be doing a lot of mail-order business when I stop in.  They have a pretty good assortment of equipment and supplies, and I’ve never had any problem with anything I’ve bought from them. The kit sounds like a reasonable deal for the money.  There are other things you’ll probably want if you keep making wine, but that should be enough to start with. As other folks have pointed out, you do want to keep the carboy topped up, so you will want to either (a) make 6-gallon batches to put in the 6-gallon carboy, or (b) tell them to send you a 5-gallon carboy instead, if that’s really what you want.  They sell both, so that shouldn’t be a big issue.  Pretty much all the commercially available kits are designed for 23 liters (6 gallons US), though, so if you are thinking you may do some of those, you’d want the 6-gallon size.  If you are looking at older books, etc. regarding wine making, you may see references to 5 gallon batch sizes that actually refer to 5 imperial (British) gallons, which is pretty close to 23 liters or 6 gallons US.  Most recipes for non-grape wines are for one gallon batches. Fond as I am of Jalapeno peppers, I have to think that 6 gallons, or even 5 gallons, of Jalapeno wine would be close to a lifetime supply. I’d recommend starting with something a little less exotic.  Based on your interest in mead or the Jalapeno wine, I’d recommend a white wine kit (one of the "28 day" variety) that makes 6 gallons.  They are nearly foolproof, and produce a pretty drinkable result in a couple of months.  And you could flavor some of the wine with Jalapenos (or whatever) before you bottle it. If you’re really determined to make the Jalapeno wine, I’d suggest trying a gallon to start with.  The recipe on Jack Keller’s site is for a 1 gallon batch.  If you decide it’s the greatest thing you ever drank, you can always make another, larger batch.  Even Jack, though, says he bottled most of his Jalapeno wine in splits and even smaller bottles — this stuff is for cooking or sipping, not for quaffing. You should be able to find 1 gallon glass jugs in the grocery store (I think apple juice is still sold in them), and Midwest Supplies sells them, too. Best of luck, whatever you decide.   Doug Hudson – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I’m new to the wine-making community. I’m mostly interested in making Meads and making this Jalapeno Wine that I found a recipe for. I imagine I would be making 5 gallons at a time. There are no brewing stores in Eau Claire, WI. But I found a store online in Minneapolis that ships out brewing supplies. They are offering the following kit for $54.95 + $8.12 for postage. I was wondering if this sounds like a fair deal. Would this be a good kit for me to start making Meads and/or some wines? Is it the right size kit for making 5 gallons at a time? Would I need any additional equipment that this kit is lacking? Or are there better Beginner kits available? I found this kit at: http://www.midwestsupplies.com/wine/equip_kits.asp I guess I’m partial to this company since it’s only 90 miles from Eau Claire. Has anyone had any experience with them? Good or Bad? <…

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Donald, I found that Kentwood Water still sells water in 5-gallon glass jugs under the "Mountain Valley" label (you can only purchase them full).  You have to pay about $11 deposit on the jug, the water costs about $1/gallon, so the total is about $17.  The threat of Isadore gave me an excuse to pick up another one earlier this week… Bart

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bart: Which water company in Baton Rouge still has the glass jugs? Thanks! Donald my 5-gal carboys are glass water jugs available from a local water company for a deposit of $11.

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You will find this recipe (which I’ve got going currently) along with many others at the Winemaking Homepage (Jack Keller’s site) http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/index.asp Can you post the recipe for the Jalepeno Wine? Hello, I’m new to the wine-making community. I’m mostly interested in making Meads and making this Jalapeno Wine that I found a recipe for. I imagine I would be making 5 gallons at a time. There are no brewing stores

– www.frugalbrewer.com Spend money making wine and beer not on pricey frills for your gear

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Bart: Which water company in Baton Rouge still has the glass jugs? Thanks! Donald – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – my 5-gal carboys are glass water jugs available from a local water company for a deposit of $11.

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Can you post the recipe for the Jalepeno Wine?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I’m new to the wine-making community. I’m mostly interested in making Meads and making this Jalapeno Wine that I found a recipe for. I imagine I would be making 5 gallons at a time. There are no brewing stores

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Well, I looked over the kit.  I really think you would be better off getting the stuff in the kit separately & improving some items & eliminating some others.  Get the 7.9 gal fermenter with a metal bail handle instead of the 7.5 gal (7.5 is hell to move when full)  Get a 5 gal carboy if you want to make 5 gal batches  Eliminate the worthless corker that comes with the kit, a plastic plunger corker, do some research into at least a double wing corker, but they can still be tough to use well, a floor corker is worth the money in my opinion  Eliminate the cheap corks included, get good corks  Get the hydrometer, racking tube, tubing, shutoff & bottle filler. You should also get Pot. Metabisulfite, an acid test kit, a Fermtech Winethief is real nice for a start, I may have forgotten something that you shouldn’t live without, but it’s a good start. Jeff

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Actually that kit is oriented toward making the great Canadian wine kits which are based on 6 US gallons ( 5 Imperial  gallons).  The trouble is that the carboy is 6 gallons and it really needs to be filled to 6 gallons. This is not  a real problem.  All you need to do is make an extra gallon! — Dan Listermann Check out our E-tail site at www.listermann.com Free shipping for orders greater than $35 and East of the Mighty Miss.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I’m new to the wine-making community. I’m mostly interested in making Meads and making this Jalapeno Wine that I found a recipe for. I imagine I would be making 5 gallons at a time. There are no brewing stores in Eau Claire, WI. But I found a store online in Minneapolis that ships out brewing supplies. They are offering the following kit for $54.95 + $8.12 for postage. I was wondering if this sounds like a fair deal. Would this be a good kit for me to start making Meads and/or some wines? Is it the right size kit for making 5 gallons at a time? Would I need any additional equipment that this kit is lacking? Or are there better Beginner kits available? I found this kit at: http://www.midwestsupplies.com/wine/equip_kits.asp I guess I’m partial to this company since it’s only 90 miles from Eau Claire. Has anyone had any experience with them? Good or Bad? Thanks for any suggestions. (sorry if it’s not cool this violates some sort of "cross-posting" ethics. I figured it was on-topic to both groups.) Robert Starter Winemaking Equipment Kit Includes: 7.5 gallon plastic fermenter with lid, 6 gallon glass carboy, stoppers for each fermenter, Econolock, Bottle Brush, Wine Hydrometer, "Making Homemade Wine" book, 8 oz of One Step Cleaner, Plastic Corker, 25 Corks, Racking tube, 6 ft. of Siphon Tubing, Bottle Filler, and a Shut off

Response:

Hello, I’m new to the wine-making community. I’m mostly interested in making Meads and making this Jalapeno Wine that I found a recipe for. I imagine I would be making 5 gallons at a time. There are no brewing stores in Eau Claire, WI. But I found a store online in Minneapolis that ships out brewing supplies. They are offering the following kit for $54.95 + $8.12 for postage. I was wondering if this sounds like a fair deal. Would this be a good kit for me to start making Meads and/or some wines? Is it the right size kit for making 5 gallons at a time? Would I need any additional equipment that this kit is lacking? Or are there better Beginner kits available? I found this kit at: http://www.midwestsupplies.com/wine/equip_kits.asp I guess I’m partial to this company since it’s only 90 miles from Eau Claire. Has anyone had any experience with them? Good or Bad? Thanks for any suggestions. (sorry if it’s not cool this violates some sort of "cross-posting" ethics. I figured it was on-topic to both groups.) Robert Starter Winemaking Equipment Kit Includes: 7.5 gallon plastic fermenter with lid, 6 gallon glass carboy, stoppers for each fermenter, Econolock, Bottle Brush, Wine Hydrometer, "Making Homemade Wine" book, 8 oz of One Step Cleaner, Plastic Corker, 25 Corks, Racking tube, 6 ft. of Siphon Tubing, Bottle Filler, and a Shut off

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Hi folks, I just got a 25L (6.6 gallons?) Hungarian Oak barrel as a gift. I plan on making a fresh grape wine this weekend and would like to use the barrel to age the wine. I do have a few questions though: (1) The barrel is of medium toast I think. It was sealed in shrink wrapped plastic with a large red sticker marked 25L M. I’m guessing that means medium toast. The barrel smells clean with a pleasent scent inside. The wood inside appears to look the same as on the outside. Is this normal? I would guess if it’s toasted it would look charred? Not sure about that… (2) Since it’s new I know I should swell the barrel. Given the size, should I use something like barrel kleen to remove some of the oakiness? (3) Any suggested length of time to age the wine in a new barrel? I know the small size will impart oak flavors quickly. My thoughts were to age in the barrel briefly then into a carboy. Not sure how long to do so…. (4) Best way to maintain the barrel after I’m done with it. (seems like a lot of different opinions on this. I’d appreciate advice based on past experience.) Thanks,

Response:

Hi folks, I just got a 25L (6.6 gallons?) Hungarian Oak barrel as a gift. I plan on making a fresh grape wine this weekend and would like to use the barrel to age the wine. I do have a few questions though: (1) The barrel is of medium toast I think. It was sealed in shrink wrapped plastic with a large red sticker marked 25L M. I’m guessing that means medium toast. The barrel smells clean with a pleasent scent inside. The wood inside appears to look the same as on the outside. Is this normal? I would guess if it’s toasted it would look charred? Not sure about that… (2) Since it’s new I know I should swell the barrel.

NO!!!  If it’s a new, shrink-wrapped barrel it should be tight and ready for wine.  If you must, fill it with _cold_ water to check for leaks, and empty it ASAP.  Given the size, should I use something like barrel kleen to remove some of the oakiness?

Absolutely NOT!  Wasn’t that barrel pretty expen$ive?  So why would you want to leach out the best part of that flavor and pour it down the drain?  I don’t approve of _any_ "barrel treatment" chemicals.  They are all a waste of money and good wood. (3) Any suggested length of time to age the wine in a new barrel? I know the small size will impart oak flavors quickly. My thoughts were to age in the barrel briefly then into a carboy. Not sure how long to do so….

That depends somewhat on the wine in question, as well as your own personal preference for oak flavor/aroma in wine.  A safe rule of thumb is to taste it weekly (making sure to top up and bung tight in between tastings), wait until it tastes about right, then leave it in another 15-20% longer.  You’ll be surprised how long you can leave wine in new wood without overoaking it. Also, after you rack it from the barrel it will lose some of the oakiness. If after that it is still too oaky, you can pull that back by fining the wine – either with gelatin or skim milk – or better still, by blending in some unoaked wine.  IOW, it is safe to overoak wines a little.  One of the best Chardonnays I ever made spent about 18 months in a new French barrel. (4) Best way to maintain the barrel after I’m done with it. (seems like a lot of different opinions on this. I’d appreciate advice based on past experience.)

Best is to always keep it full of wine. Next best is to wash it as thoroughly as possible to remove all sediment and tartrates, drain it, gas it with SO2 while it is still wet and bung it tight. I know there’re a lot of people who advise putting is a gallon or more of sulfite/citric solution and bunging tight, but that leaches too much of the "goodies" from the wood.  The idea is to protect the wood from things growing in/on it and preserve as much of the wood flavor as possible.  I’ve rinsed, drained, gassed and bunged barrels and then just left them alone for ten years before using them again.  The hoops were all loose by then, but the barrel was _clean_ and dry inside.  All I had to do was re-tighten the hoops and fill the barrel up with cold water until it stopped leaking (~1-2 days) and it was ready to make wine in again. As for gassing, you _can_ use sulfur candles for that, with one caveat:  if you intend to do a barrel fermentation in that barrel, be sure _none_ of the candle drips into the bottom of the barrel or you’ll have a *guaranteed* H2S problem in the next fermentation. Tom S

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Roger No experience with Pear, bit a lot with 71B; it’s ‘preferential’ to malic, but it does not claim to eat it all.  I think they say it metabolizes about 15 to 20% of the existing malic acid.  I use if for most of my higher acid northern grapes.  If you think the wine is fine the way it is, maybe you are right to not risk MLF, that will change things one way or the other, that is for sure. Regards, Joe   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ben et.al., Thanks for the comments. I was surprised that nobody had specific experience with this style. This pear wine spent 40 days on its lees, which includes the approximately 3 week fermentation. I was just waiting for an additional 1 gallon batch (started later) to finish, so that I could use it to top the 5 gallon carboy. One further detail is that the must became somewhat oxidized prior to fermentation due to difficulty in handling. Most, but not all, of the brown fell out during fermentation, leaving the wine with a light amber color – rather than the typical straw of pear wine. The color is reminiscent of the slight yellow of Chardonnay vs. lighter whites such as Riesling. The resulting still wine is remarkably ‘luscious’ (good word), and it’s only 47 days old. Comments about the use of 71B to ferment are taken gracefully; I had no intention of making an oaked white wine when I started. I was trying to make a pear wine with pronounced flavor, hence the ‘fruity’ 71B. Prior to ferm, I adjusted TA to .65%, but I haven’t measured its final value. Being a dry wine, the acid balances reasonably to me by taste. As I mentioned, I will not try MLF. I am too naive about it and I wouldn’t want to risk the batch. I will be setting aside a 375mL bottle with 2g oak chips. This is based on a ratio of 5g/liter, giving 1.875g which I’m rounding up. I’m going out of town for 2 weeks, and I intend to sample it when I return. Maybe it’s me, but I am tasting oak lately in strange places. This weekend I filtered and bottled 4 batches, and I had an extra glass of kiwi that I stuck in the freezer for 30 minutes to chill. When it was tasted, ‘yum’ was the word and I could imagine light oak as I judged the finish. Not heavy, as this is a crisp and mildly tart wine, but light. I’ve had an oaked Vidal like that, and it was good. Ben, that rhubarb sounds interesting! Best, Roger Quinta do Placer

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Roger, bottle with 2g oak chips. This is based on a ratio of 5g/liter, giving 1.875g which I’m rounding up. I’m going out of town for 2 weeks, and I intend to sample it when I return.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this wine. Keep us posted on how the Pear turns out oaked at 5 g/l! Ben

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Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this wine. Keep us posted on how the Pear turns out oaked at 5 g/l!

Back from my 2 weeks in Hawaii… can’t say I’m thrilled about that, but I did taste my sample of oaked pear wine that was laid aside for the 2 weeks I was away. BLECH. Perhaps it was just too much oak, but the stuff tastes like whiskey. Totally kills the fruit. Ideally, I’d try again with less oak and/or less time, but I think I’m just going to bottle the batch – tastes lovely as is. Roger Quinta do Placer

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Roger, Thanks for the update. BLECH.

As I said in a previous post in this thread, I’d be light handed with the oak (and no/little toast). Pears tend to be a light wine, including being light on fruit. How fruity is your pear wine? Perhaps the wine just couldn’t take that much oak… Ben

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Back from my 2 weeks in Hawaii… can’t say I’m thrilled about that, but I did taste my sample of oaked pear wine that was laid aside for the 2 weeks I was away. BLECH. Perhaps it was just too much oak, but the stuff tastes like whiskey. Totally kills the fruit.

Try fining it with ~2 liters/1000 gallons skim milk.  That will pull back the oak flavor.  Be sure to (1) first dilute the skim milk to about 10% with water, and (2) add it slowly with constant stirring. Do this first on a liter sample to see if it’s worth the trouble. Tom S

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Roger, Thanks for the update. BLECH. As I said in a previous post in this thread, I’d be light handed with the oak (and no/little toast). Pears tend to be a light wine, including being light on fruit. How fruity is your pear wine? Perhaps the wine just couldn’t take that much oak… Ben

Hmmm. Recently started a batch of pear. I was thinking about spicing part of it, not with oak but with walnut leafs. Never tried walnut leaf wine though, but apparently it comes out quite nutty. I will probably try it out on a gallon of pear wine. I will let you know… Ren