Winery Wiki

Question:

I was sitting here minding my own business, reading the ng, with Persia on the pillow to my left.  Suddenly I heard this EXPLOSION.  I have a glass front door and I swear I thought someone had thrown a brick through it. I ran to investigate.  A corked, empty wine bottle from last week was sitting on the floor, waiting to be taken out with the trash.  It had exploded!  Glass shards everywhere!  After telling Persia to stay out of the kitchen, I picked up the larger pieces of glass and got out the vacuum cleaner and got the small shards off the floor. What a weird thing to have happen! Jill

Oh, man, I bet that scared you to death. I’m sure there’s a scientific explanation, and I also bet Howard can tell us exactly what it is!! Sherry <— Thinks Howard is handier than a dictionary

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was sitting here minding my own business, reading the ng, with Persia on the pillow to my left.  Suddenly I heard this EXPLOSION.  I have a glass front door and I swear I thought someone had thrown a brick through it. I ran to investigate.  A corked, empty wine bottle from last week was sitting on the floor, waiting to be taken out with the trash.  It had exploded!  Glass shards everywhere!  After telling Persia to stay out of the kitchen, I picked up the larger pieces of glass and got out the vacuum cleaner and got the small shards off the floor. What a weird thing to have happen! Jill Oh, man, I bet that scared you to death. I’m sure there’s a scientific explanation, and I also bet Howard can tell us exactly what it is!! Sherry <— Thinks Howard is handier than a dictionary

To borrow from Robert A. Heinlein, "The Gods breathed on it and caused it need to alter its place."

Response:

I was sitting here minding my own business, reading the ng, with Persia on the pillow to my left.  Suddenly I heard this EXPLOSION.  I have a glass front door and I swear I thought someone had thrown a brick through it. I ran to investigate.  A corked, empty wine bottle from last week was sitting on the floor, waiting to be taken out with the trash.  It had exploded!  Glass shards everywhere!  After telling Persia to stay out of the kitchen, I picked up the larger pieces of glass and got out the vacuum cleaner and got the small shards off the floor. What a weird thing to have happen!

Not really. Wine is just rotted grape juice – leave some in a sealed container where it will get warm and it continues to ferment. More gas. More pressure… — Once a suicide bomber, always a suicide bomber

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was sitting here minding my own business, reading the ng, with Persia on the pillow to my left.  Suddenly I heard this EXPLOSION. I have a glass front door and I swear I thought someone had thrown a brick through it. I ran to investigate.  A corked, empty wine bottle from last week was sitting on the floor, waiting to be taken out with the trash.  It had exploded!  Glass shards everywhere!  After telling Persia to stay out of the kitchen, I picked up the larger pieces of glass and got out the vacuum cleaner and got the small shards off the floor. What a weird thing to have happen! Not really. Wine is just rotted grape juice – leave some in a sealed container where it will get warm and it continues to ferment. More gas. More pressure…

No, at the end of the wine making process, fermentation stops and due to the addition of various chemicals, it wouldn’t keep fermenting. Also, a few drops in a bottle wouldn’t really do that and even if it did, you’d think that the pressure would pop the cork out first, before the bottle explodes. — Britta "There is no snooze button on a cat who wants breakfast." — Unknown Check out pictures of Vino at: http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was sitting here minding my own business, reading the ng, with Persia on the pillow to my left.  Suddenly I heard this EXPLOSION. I have a glass front door and I swear I thought someone had thrown a brick through it. I ran to investigate.  A corked, empty wine bottle from last week was sitting on the floor, waiting to be taken out with the trash.  It had exploded!  Glass shards everywhere!  After telling Persia to stay out of the kitchen, I picked up the larger pieces of glass and got out the vacuum cleaner and got the small shards off the floor. What a weird thing to have happen! Not really. Wine is just rotted grape juice – leave some in a sealed container where it will get warm and it continues to ferment. More gas. More pressure… No, at the end of the wine making process, fermentation stops and due to the addition of various chemicals, it wouldn’t keep fermenting. Also, a few drops in a bottle wouldn’t really do that and even if it did, you’d think that the pressure would pop the cork out first, before the bottle explodes. —

I know you know a lot about wine Britta.  And that makes sense or wine shops would be a terrible mess.  Still gotta wonder what did happen. Jo

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was sitting here minding my own business, reading the ng, with Persia on the pillow to my left.  Suddenly I heard this EXPLOSION. I have a glass front door and I swear I thought someone had thrown a brick through it. I ran to investigate.  A corked, empty wine bottle from last week was sitting on the floor, waiting to be taken out with the trash.  It had exploded!  Glass shards everywhere!  After telling Persia to stay out of the kitchen, I picked up the larger pieces of glass and got out the vacuum cleaner and got the small shards off the floor. What a weird thing to have happen! Not really. Wine is just rotted grape juice – leave some in a sealed container where it will get warm and it continues to ferment. More gas. More pressure… No, at the end of the wine making process, fermentation stops and due to the addition of various chemicals, it wouldn’t keep fermenting. Also, a few drops in a bottle wouldn’t really do that and even if it did, you’d think that the pressure would pop the cork out first, before the bottle explodes. — I know you know a lot about wine Britta.  And that makes sense or wine shops would be a terrible mess.  Still gotta wonder what did happen. Jo

Well, I don’t know nearly as much as I would like to know.  If this Aussie visa comes through, I’m going to take some courses at a winery college.  I can’t wait! I have no clue as to what happened, it’s a total mystery.  <Insert Twilight Zone music here — Britta "There is no snooze button on a cat who wants breakfast." — Unknown Check out pictures of Vino at: http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was sitting here minding my own business, reading the ng, with Persia on the pillow to my left.  Suddenly I heard this EXPLOSION. I have a glass front door and I swear I thought someone had thrown a brick through it. I ran to investigate.  A corked, empty wine bottle from last week was sitting on the floor, waiting to be taken out with the trash. It had exploded!  Glass shards everywhere!  After telling Persia to stay out of the kitchen, I picked up the larger pieces of glass and got out the vacuum cleaner and got the small shards off the floor. What a weird thing to have happen! Not really. Wine is just rotted grape juice – leave some in a sealed container where it will get warm and it continues to ferment. More gas. More pressure… No, at the end of the wine making process, fermentation stops and due to the addition of various chemicals, it wouldn’t keep fermenting. Also, a few drops in a bottle wouldn’t really do that and even if it did, you’d think that the pressure would pop the cork out first, before the bottle explodes.

I disagree. There is still yeast present – that’s why winos get so upset if their rackful of bottles in the cellar is jostled. The yeast has to be settled to the bottom. Pop the cork? Yes, it would. Unless the cork fit really, really tight! And of course screwtops won’t pop off. — Once a suicide bomber, always a suicide bomber

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was sitting here minding my own business, reading the ng, with Persia on the pillow to my left.  Suddenly I heard this EXPLOSION. I have a glass front door and I swear I thought someone had thrown a brick through it. I ran to investigate.  A corked, empty wine bottle from last week was sitting on the floor, waiting to be taken out with the trash. It had exploded!  Glass shards everywhere!  After telling Persia to stay out of the kitchen, I picked up the larger pieces of glass and got out the vacuum cleaner and got the small shards off the floor. What a weird thing to have happen! Not really. Wine is just rotted grape juice – leave some in a sealed container where it will get warm and it continues to ferment. More gas. More pressure… No, at the end of the wine making process, fermentation stops and due to the addition of various chemicals, it wouldn’t keep fermenting. Also, a few drops in a bottle wouldn’t really do that and even if it did, you’d think that the pressure would pop the cork out first, before the bottle explodes. I disagree. There is still yeast present – that’s why winos get so upset if their rackful of bottles in the cellar is jostled. The yeast has to be settled to the bottom. Pop the cork? Yes, it would. Unless the cork fit really, really tight! And of course screwtops won’t pop off.

That’s not yeast that settles in the bottom, it’s sediment.  And most newer storebought wines won’t have that anyway, it gets filtered out at the winery.  The wine most people buy is only a couple of years old too. And I doubt Jill would be able to re-cork the bottle that tightly by hand and why would she, she’s only throwing it out.  And I think she said it was a cork not a screwtop.  Who knows? — Britta "There is no snooze button on a cat who wants breakfast." — Unknown Check out pictures of Vino at: http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was sitting here minding my own business, reading the ng, with Persia on the pillow to my left.  Suddenly I heard this EXPLOSION. I have a glass front door and I swear I thought someone had thrown a brick through it. I ran to investigate.  A corked, empty wine bottle from last week was sitting on the floor, waiting to be taken out with the trash. It had exploded!  Glass shards everywhere!  After telling Persia to stay out of the kitchen, I picked up the larger pieces of glass and got out the vacuum cleaner and got the small shards off the floor. What a weird thing to have happen! Not really. Wine is just rotted grape juice – leave some in a sealed container where it will get warm and it continues to ferment. More gas. More pressure… No, at the end of the wine making process, fermentation stops and due to the addition of various chemicals, it wouldn’t keep fermenting. Also, a few drops in a bottle wouldn’t really do that and even if it did, you’d think that the pressure would pop the cork out first, before the bottle explodes. I disagree. There is still yeast present – that’s why winos get so upset if their rackful of bottles in the cellar is jostled. The yeast has to be settled to the bottom. Pop the cork? Yes, it would. Unless the cork fit really, really tight! And of course screwtops won’t pop off. That’s not yeast that settles in the bottom, it’s sediment.  And most newer storebought wines won’t have that anyway, it gets filtered out at the winery.  The wine most people buy is only a couple of years old too. And I doubt Jill would be able to re-cork the bottle that tightly by hand and why would she, she’s only throwing it out.  And I think she said it was a cork not a screwtop.  Who knows?

Defnitely a cork.  I can only surmise the bottle was somehow damaged or stressed as I’ve put corks back in empties in the past and never had this happen.  From now on I’ll just toss the cork separately. Jill – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Britta "There is no snooze button on a cat who wants breakfast." — Unknown Check out pictures of Vino at: http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album

Response:

Pressure inside from fermentation of the dregs? Or feline Molotov cocktail? You may never know. –Fil

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was sitting here minding my own business, reading the ng, with Persia on the pillow to my left.  Suddenly I heard this EXPLOSION.  I have a glass front door and I swear I thought someone had thrown a brick through it. I ran to investigate.  A corked, empty wine bottle from last week was sitting on the floor, waiting to be taken out with the trash.  It had exploded!  Glass shards everywhere!  After telling Persia to stay out of the kitchen, I picked up the larger pieces of glass and got out the vacuum cleaner and got the small shards off the floor. What a weird thing to have happen! Jill — I used to have a handle on life…but it broke off.

I’m glad neither of you were in there when it happened.  and that Persia obeyed her Mommy and stayed out of there until you could clean it up (I shudder when I think of kitty paws walking on broken glass).  Weebs made a fine choise in girlfriends But on another note, this reminds me of way back long ago, I was helping Mom clean the fridge.  We removed everything (all the food that could fit went into the cooler, some of the other "won’t hurt if it sets out for an hour" food went on the dining room table), all shelves got washed, interior wiped down and then everthing put back.  Right about the time we started to put the shelves back we heard a *POP* from the dining room.  Didn’t think much of it, thought it was either my brother or Dad getting something from the cooler & letting the lid fall back down.  We started putting the food back in, that was when we noticed that a can of biscuits (you ‘Merkins know what I’m talking about) had explded all over the dining room!  We could do nothing but laugh.  There were raw biscuits stuck to the walls, china cabinet and sliding glass door to the balcony!  The glass was easy to clean up – but the wall…. never realized that biscuit dough was that greasy! Good thing we had sturdy wallpaper! — The ONE and ONLY lefthanded-pathetic-paranoid-psychotic-sarcastic-wiseass-ditzy former-blonde in Bloomington! (And proud of it, too)

Question:

Yup, your cancer came 10 years later, probably because of the wine.  :-)

I never thought about it that way. Thanks Steve! — Wake Biopsy positive 5% in 1 of 10 cores T1c Gleason 3+3 RRP 1/12/04 Pathology agreed with biopsy + Negative margins PSA – 4/29/04: <0.1 Mostly Dry – July ‘04 PSA – 10/5/04: <0.1

Response:

A 10 mg lycopene capsule would have 10 mg of lycopene.  Many people feel however that you get much more benefit from tomato juice etc. than from a supplement.  Tomato juice is a lot cheaper anyway!                   —MIKE—

Response:

How much lycopene in a 10 mg lycopene capsule? Not as much as in half a cup of tomato juice.  A mg of water is a cube 0.1 cm

on a side, so 10 mg of water would be a cube about 0.08 -inches- on each edge. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text — Prostate Cancer Survivor (so far), not a doctor Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3bN0M0 PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75 PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 PSA  .07 .05 .06 Lupron (3 mo) 8/03 (48), 12/03, 4/04 (49), 09/04 (50) non illegitimi carborundum Tomato juice – 1/2 cup contains 13.2 mg of lycopene.  It’s raw tomatoes that don’t provide much lycopene.  Tomato sauce is even higher – about 20 mg per 1/2 cup.  (This is from google).                   —MIKE—

Response:

How much lycopene in a 10 mg lycopene capsule? — Prostate Cancer Survivor (so far), not a doctor Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3bN0M0 PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75 PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 PSA  .07 .05 .06 Lupron (3 mo) 8/03 (48), 12/03, 4/04 (49), 09/04 (50) non illegitimi carborundum

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tomato juice – 1/2 cup contains 13.2 mg of lycopene.  It’s raw tomatoes that don’t provide much lycopene.  Tomato sauce is even higher – about 20 mg per 1/2 cup.  (This is from google).                   —MIKE—

Response:

Hello Mike, I did find this article. Maybe Tomatoe Juice contains a good portion of lycopene, but how much is absorbed actually by the body, since lycopene is fat soluable. Copyright

Question:

"Tzipporah BenAvraham" <drt…@doneasy.com> wrote in message

news:43a3ced3.0410091201.285dd961@posting.google.com… > Serves you right for siding with Metzger and  attacking me. > Tzippy

yes sure ,, dream a happy dream freak!!! can you swim??? just plannin new strategy,, i know your ballooons float,, but they wont support a tonnage!!!! say,,, are you still single??? i dont mean youtr multiple personalities,,, i mean your relationship factor?? cause i know a couple of other freaks who are looking for a mate,,, bobD

Response:

In <news:bGX9d.692661$gE.629447@pd7tw3no>, bobD said: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Tzipporah BenAvraham" <drt…@doneasy.com> wrote in message > news:43a3ced3.0410091201.285dd961@posting.google.com… >> Serves you right for siding with Metzger and  attacking me. >> Tzippy > yes sure ,, dream a happy dream freak!!! > can you swim??? just plannin new strategy,, i know your ballooons > float,, but they wont support a tonnage!!!! > say,,, are you still single??? i dont mean youtr multiple > personalities,,, i mean your relationship factor?? > cause i know a couple of other freaks who are looking for a mate,,, > bobD

Hey… I have a used sock in search of a mate.   Figger Tzippy’s a good fit?

Response:

"Michael" <muirh…@haidagwaii.net> wrote in message

news:2sr1veF1ogikuU1@uni-berlin.de… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In <news:bGX9d.692661$gE.629447@pd7tw3no>, > bobD said: > > "Tzipporah BenAvraham" <drt…@doneasy.com> wrote in message > > news:43a3ced3.0410091201.285dd961@posting.google.com… > >> Serves you right for siding with Metzger and  attacking me. > >> Tzippy > > yes sure ,, dream a happy dream freak!!! > > can you swim??? just plannin new strategy,, i know your ballooons > > float,, but they wont support a tonnage!!!! > > say,,, are you still single??? i dont mean youtr multiple > > personalities,,, i mean your relationship factor?? > > cause i know a couple of other freaks who are looking for a mate,,, > > bobD > Hey… I have a used sock in search of a mate.   Figger Tzippy’s a good fit?

lets see a used sock,,, could be very compatible with a tzippy monster,,, bobD

Response:

In <news:nbZ9d.55134$a41.52190@pd7tw2no>, bobD said: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Michael" <muirh…@haidagwaii.net> wrote in message > news:2sr1veF1ogikuU1@uni-berlin.de… >> In <news:bGX9d.692661$gE.629447@pd7tw3no>, >> bobD said: >>> "Tzipporah BenAvraham" <drt…@doneasy.com> wrote in message >>> news:43a3ced3.0410091201.285dd961@posting.google.com… >>>> Serves you right for siding with Metzger and  attacking me. >>>> Tzippy >>> yes sure ,, dream a happy dream freak!!! >>> can you swim??? just plannin new strategy,, i know your ballooons >>> float,, but they wont support a tonnage!!!! >>> say,,, are you still single??? i dont mean youtr multiple >>> personalities,,, i mean your relationship factor?? >>> cause i know a couple of other freaks who are looking for a mate,,, >>> bobD >> Hey… I have a used sock in search of a mate.   Figger Tzippy’s a >> good fit? > lets see a used sock,,, could be very compatible with a tzippy > monster,,, > bobD

http://qcislands.ca/muirhead/Sock4Tzippy.jpg ((U))   M

Response:

bloooody hilarious michael!!!!!!!! damn funny,, that is one effed up sock!!! bobd      :^) "Michael" <muirh…@haidagwaii.net> wrote in message

news:2srbm2F1o73mmU1@uni-berlin.de… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In <news:nbZ9d.55134$a41.52190@pd7tw2no>, > bobD said: > > "Michael" <muirh…@haidagwaii.net> wrote in message > > news:2sr1veF1ogikuU1@uni-berlin.de… > >> In <news:bGX9d.692661$gE.629447@pd7tw3no>, > >> bobD said: > >>> "Tzipporah BenAvraham" <drt…@doneasy.com> wrote in message > >>> news:43a3ced3.0410091201.285dd961@posting.google.com… > >>>> Serves you right for siding with Metzger and  attacking me. > >>>> Tzippy > >>> yes sure ,, dream a happy dream freak!!! > >>> can you swim??? just plannin new strategy,, i know your ballooons > >>> float,, but they wont support a tonnage!!!! > >>> say,,, are you still single??? i dont mean youtr multiple > >>> personalities,,, i mean your relationship factor?? > >>> cause i know a couple of other freaks who are looking for a mate,,, > >>> bobD > >> Hey… I have a used sock in search of a mate.   Figger Tzippy’s a > >> good fit? > > lets see a used sock,,, could be very compatible with a tzippy > > monster,,, > > bobD > http://qcislands.ca/muirhead/Sock4Tzippy.jpg > ((U)) >   M

Response:

"Rob Duncan" <robdun…@gbronline.com> wrote in message

news:cPudne6Pzah4OPHcRVn-pQ@gbronline.com… > Wasnt it some sort of rare ground up beetle wings?  Or am I thinking of > something else?

me dont know senior~ > Has anything improved since you last wrote? > Rob

 well i have movement again in my legs,slow ,but better than nothing,, pain is still very bad,, i am goin to a neurologist in a month,, looking into novantrone and antegren, treatments,,, see if i am a candidate. where did you go on your trip??/ bobD

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"bobD" <phatbh…@REMOVEshaw.ca> wrote in message <news:7wj8d.603678$M95.285459@pd7tw1no>… > "Rob Duncan" <robdun…@gbronline.com> wrote in message > news:SuWdnXM3OshmA_zcRVn-tg@gbronline.com… > > Bob, YO!   Are you out there?  Whats up?  Im going on another vacation > > Wednesday.  Are you okay? > > Rob > i am having a severe attack ,  both legs have shut down and i have even > worse nerve pain all over my body,,, never thought that would be possible,, > but i cant even handle wearing socks on my feet it hurts so bad,,

Serves you right for siding with Metzger and  attacking me. Tzippy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> first cold of the year for me,, and this happens,, > i have all sorts of news too, > i have been doin just fine using my new marijuana capsule regime i am on,, > i discussed this with my doctor recently and i informed him of the BIG > difference between marinol/nabilone and REAl marijuana. > his thc pills that had a dose of 1mg per pill at a cost of 814 dollars for a > 4 per day rx,,  of 120 pills ,did NOT CONTAIN even close  to the amount of > thc mgs in 1 single joint of marijuana i smoke . > at a cost of under 5 dollars for one joint for more thc medication than 1 > month of his garbage,,,, > then i reminded him of the measured CBD’s i have in my marijuana too, many > cannabinoids which are being shown to be what affects Ms more than thc,,, > my doctor asked me if THEY, did not do any comparison efficacy testing?? > when they developed the measured dosage for me to use in Canada.??? > you tell me i said!!!!! i am just disgusted with this JOKE, thc crap pills > my capsules are measured 50mg dosages of thc plus the other ingredients > found in real marijuana- cannabinoids,,, > i am testing these pills before they start their controlled drug study,, at > no cost to me,, all i do is submit my individual findings of how these > capsules help me, or not,, any side effects i have positive or negative, > what symptoms of my disease do i find are being treated if any,, etc etc. > so far i have been using an effective dose of 8 caps per day,, or 400mgs of > real thc > in nabilone pills this dose would cost healthcare 2800 per day,, > the pills might go for 3 bucks each for the high dose. > also i get more benefit from a specific strain too,, even though they caps > are all the same measured dose,, certain marijuana strains are providiong > more relief,,, targeting more specific probs i have. > of the strains of marijuana caps i have,, i have found the sativa blends > lame,, > i prefer the UBC Chemo pills strain, has more effect on me and is a pure > indica strain. > these caps are also being offered in 25 and 12 mg  doses,, > my job is to TEST THE LIMITS of these pills. > so far there is NO overdose level.!!!! that i can find,,, > they are all organic too,, nabilone contains sesamea oil,, these are > measured doses of pure marijuana extract reconstituted back into spent > organic plant matter then into gel caps,,, > also i have 2 new super deadly medicinal grade marijuana strains goin. > one is the ubc northern lights that my buddy had tested there, and it came > in at 36% thc content,, and very high CBD numbers too,, which are > cannabinoids!!! a most potent medical grade pot i have ever seen,,, > for comparison the Health Canada shit tested at like 5-7% ,, this stuff is > 6-7 times more potent,, meaning instead of smoking 30 joints a day of shit > and gettin no relief,, i will smoke 1/5 that and benefit like i never > could,, > i have tested all the strains i am using now they are unreal,,,very potent,, > better than anything i have ever used. > the second i am trying is called  Mazzar , another very potent indica,,, > what i am looking for is something to use instead of narcotics like > morphine,, so i need the most potent indica around,, indicas work more like > a sedative or a pain killer,, > sativas work more like  cylert/alertec  more of a cyber head buzz very UP,, > energetic type of effects,,, > also i have hooked up with Advanced Nutes and am gettin their entire line of > grow products free of charge in exchange for my final numbers using their > products,,, following their exact feeding procedures. > so far i am very impressed with their technology in how they establish a > plant immune system and then initiate a viral infection- simulated, which > causes the plants immune system response- extrude mass amounts of THC and > OIL, trichomes, this is what they learned and the products are not even > plant food but  if you check out these 4 products you will understand their > purpose. > voodoo juice > scorpion juice > tarantula powder > pirhanna powder > these are all beneficial bacteria live born and beneficial fungi -live > born,, the first 2 juice products insitiate massive immune system > development and root structures,,, building the plants defensive > capabilities. > the last 2 powdered live born products simulate an intrinsic systemic > microbacterial infection, and fugial infection,, the only purpose of this is > to Trick the marijuana plant into goin on its defensive, by produciing more > thc and filling the glands of the plant with oils,,, their defense > mechanism,, > this creates higher thc plants!!!! proven science too,,  when a group of > exact clones were grown side by side and one given this routine the other > group not,, the control group scored on average 5-7 % thc higher than when > this product line is not used,, making better medications. > every product is interrelated and all are needed for the overall end product > to be excellent. > i am not sure if i would fork over 1grand every grow for this regime had i > not been sponsored,,, > well thats about all thats new,,, with me,, > sorry for the long absence,,, > my excuse,, not ms > 2 kids, 2 soccer teams, 3 practices a week, fine arts for daughter mondays, > ballet on tuesdays,  pac meeting tonight,  to school and back 3 times a > day,,, ambulatory care all last week,,dinner lunches, breakfasts, homework, > friends commin over, laundry, add the new trampoline in the backyard,, > plus get this ,, my black lab has Epilepsy,,, no shit eh!!!! she has > seizures,, every 6 months ,, > bobD

Response:

"Rob Duncan" <robdun…@gbronline.com> wrote in message

news:AfOdnabVJ5y_uf7cRVn-uw@gbronline.com… > Drink at least 3, 16oz glasses of concord grape-juice a day.  The > phytochemicals help rebuild and strengthen the bonds between endothelial > cells.  (The cells that comprise your Blood Brain Barrier)  Thus preventing > even more White Blood Cells from getting into the Central Nervous System and > doing damage.

mmm i love that juice,,, > Plus the antioxidents in it stop bad chems released from astrocytes, glial > cells, WBC’s, etc., from killing neurons, and from demyelinating axons. > Im not kidding. > Actually, if you can handle being buzzed all day long, drink a dark Merlo > instead.

we have been sampling alot of new BC wines recently,, many very nice quality blends being grown in the okanogan valley. plus on a recent trip to Kelowna we visited a few wineries and sampled the ORIGIONAL Ice Wine. priced around 100 bucks a bottle, each frozen grape harvested in winter yields only 1 little bead of wine making juice,,, making it very expensive to produce,, but very tasty stuff.  mission hill wines makes a nice smooth merlot and a oaky cabernet sauvignon, both nice red wines,, under 17 dollars a bottle.  plus we did all the wine testing tips learned about why you serve red at room temp,, what to look for on the glass,after swirling wine,,, why hold the stem of glass only,,  spit out first taste as it is only to cleanse the palate, then you take a real sample of the wine being tested,, very informative and fun tours,, plus everyone gets giddy, i can handle a nice merlot ms treatment???!!!!! Studies have shown that the alcohol in the wine not only disolves, > and thus puts into solution, more antioxidents from the grape skins, but > also disolves some antioxidents from the wood casks the wine is aged in. > Really.  Trust me Bob.  If you can handle the wine, and its not medically > contraindicated, please do it.  You can be a happy drunk for a while, heh > heh, "Hey MOM, its just my medicine." > Rob > (Im sending you ultra-long penis power.) > inside joke.

 hey my mojo was gettin low thaks man!!!!  Cialisdialysis !!  IV-Viagra!! i still say screw all this viagra crap,, Spanish fly makes chicks horny!!! dont forget that ever!!!! spanish fly,, member that stuf??? whatever it was,,, bobD  :^)

Response:

"Rob Duncan" <robdun…@gbronline.com> wrote in message

news:cv2dnb6t04oBdPzcRVn-qg@gbronline.com… > Fuck Bob, it sounds like you have more on your plate than you need, > especially considering the MS.  I hope stuff gets better while Im gone. MS > sucks shit. > Rob

yes it really sucks right now,,,  just trying to hold it together,, must remain calm,, relaxed,, not get all upset over this disease,,, i cant stop it,, so i must deal with it,,   i can handle not being mobile,, but the nerve pain is rediculous,,, beyond pain is how i feel,, on a scale of 1-10 my pain is 1000000, its at the point right now where it hurts just being totally still, very bizarre pain experience,, the numbness is similar to when your limbs fall asleep,, but 1000 times more painfull and it does nt let up,,  all over my body,, legs arms left chest, stomach,, everywhere,,, i feel like i am on fire,,, not even flu season yet!!! bobD

Response:

"bobD" <phatbh…@REMOVEshaw.ca> wrote in message

news:UlC8d.619654$M95.200454@pd7tw1no… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Rob Duncan" <robdun…@gbronline.com> wrote in message > news:cv2dnb6t04oBdPzcRVn-qg@gbronline.com… >> Fuck Bob, it sounds like you have more on your plate than you need, >> especially considering the MS.  I hope stuff gets better while Im gone. > MS >> sucks shit. >> Rob > yes it really sucks right now,,,  just trying to hold it together,, must > remain calm,, relaxed,, not get all upset over this disease,,, > i cant stop it,, so i must deal with it,,   i can handle not being > mobile,, > but the nerve pain is rediculous,,, beyond pain is how i feel,, on a scale > of 1-10 my pain is 1000000, > its at the point right now where it hurts just being totally still, very > bizarre pain experience,, the numbness is similar to when your limbs fall > asleep,, but 1000 times more painfull and it does nt let up,,  all over my > body,, legs arms left chest, stomach,, everywhere,,, > i feel like i am on fire,,, > not even flu season yet!!! > bobD

Drink at least 3, 16oz glasses of concord grape-juice a day.  The phytochemicals help rebuild and strengthen the bonds between endothelial cells.  (The cells that comprise your Blood Brain Barrier)  Thus preventing even more White Blood Cells from getting into the Central Nervous System and doing damage. Plus the antioxidents in it stop bad chems released from astrocytes, glial cells, WBC’s, etc., from killing neurons, and from demyelinating axons. Im not kidding. Actually, if you can handle being buzzed all day long, drink a dark Merlo instead.  Studies have shown that the alcohol in the wine not only disolves, and thus puts into solution, more antioxidents from the grape skins, but also disolves some antioxidents from the wood casks the wine is aged in. Really.  Trust me Bob.  If you can handle the wine, and its not medically contraindicated, please do it.  You can be a happy drunk for a while, heh heh, "Hey MOM, its just my medicine." Rob (Im sending you ultra-long penis power.) inside joke.

Response:

"bobD" <phatbh…@REMOVEshaw.ca> wrote in message

news:7wj8d.603678$M95.285459@pd7tw1no… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Rob Duncan" <robdun…@gbronline.com> wrote in message > news:SuWdnXM3OshmA_zcRVn-tg@gbronline.com… >> Bob, YO!   Are you out there?  Whats up?  Im going on another vacation >> Wednesday.  Are you okay? >> Rob > i am having a severe attack ,  both legs have shut down and i have even > worse nerve pain all over my body,,, never thought that would be > possible,, > but i cant even handle wearing socks on my feet it hurts so bad,, > first cold of the year for me,, and this happens,, > i have all sorts of news too, > i have been doin just fine using my new marijuana capsule regime i am on,, > i discussed this with my doctor recently and i informed him of the BIG > difference between marinol/nabilone and REAl marijuana. > his thc pills that had a dose of 1mg per pill at a cost of 814 dollars for > a > 4 per day rx,,  of 120 pills ,did NOT CONTAIN even close  to the amount of > thc mgs in 1 single joint of marijuana i smoke . > at a cost of under 5 dollars for one joint for more thc medication than 1 > month of his garbage,,,, > then i reminded him of the measured CBD’s i have in my marijuana too, many > cannabinoids which are being shown to be what affects Ms more than thc,,, > my doctor asked me if THEY, did not do any comparison efficacy testing?? > when they developed the measured dosage for me to use in Canada.??? > you tell me i said!!!!! i am just disgusted with this JOKE, thc crap pills > my capsules are measured 50mg dosages of thc plus the other ingredients > found in real marijuana- cannabinoids,,, > i am testing these pills before they start their controlled drug study,, > at > no cost to me,, all i do is submit my individual findings of how these > capsules help me, or not,, any side effects i have positive or negative, > what symptoms of my disease do i find are being treated if any,, etc etc. > so far i have been using an effective dose of 8 caps per day,, or 400mgs > of > real thc > in nabilone pills this dose would cost healthcare 2800 per day,, > the pills might go for 3 bucks each for the high dose. > also i get more benefit from a specific strain too,, even though they caps > are all the same measured dose,, certain marijuana strains are providiong > more relief,,, targeting more specific probs i have. > of the strains of marijuana caps i have,, i have found the sativa blends > lame,, > i prefer the UBC Chemo pills strain, has more effect on me and is a pure > indica strain. > these caps are also being offered in 25 and 12 mg  doses,, > my job is to TEST THE LIMITS of these pills. > so far there is NO overdose level.!!!! that i can find,,, > they are all organic too,, nabilone contains sesamea oil,, these are > measured doses of pure marijuana extract reconstituted back into spent > organic plant matter then into gel caps,,, > also i have 2 new super deadly medicinal grade marijuana strains goin. > one is the ubc northern lights that my buddy had tested there, and it came > in at 36% thc content,, and very high CBD numbers too,, which are > cannabinoids!!! a most potent medical grade pot i have ever seen,,, > for comparison the Health Canada shit tested at like 5-7% ,, this stuff is > 6-7 times more potent,, meaning instead of smoking 30 joints a day of shit > and gettin no relief,, i will smoke 1/5 that and benefit like i never > could,, > i have tested all the strains i am using now they are unreal,,,very > potent,, > better than anything i have ever used. > the second i am trying is called  Mazzar , another very potent indica,,, > what i am looking for is something to use instead of narcotics like > morphine,, so i need the most potent indica around,, indicas work more > like > a sedative or a pain killer,, > sativas work more like  cylert/alertec  more of a cyber head buzz very > UP,, > energetic type of effects,,, > also i have hooked up with Advanced Nutes and am gettin their entire line > of > grow products free of charge in exchange for my final numbers using their > products,,, following their exact feeding procedures. > so far i am very impressed with their technology in how they establish a > plant immune system and then initiate a viral infection- simulated, which > causes the plants immune system response- extrude mass amounts of THC and > OIL, trichomes, this is what they learned and the products are not even > plant food but  if you check out these 4 products you will understand > their > purpose. > voodoo juice > scorpion juice > tarantula powder > pirhanna powder > these are all beneficial bacteria live born and beneficial fungi -live > born,, the first 2 juice products insitiate massive immune system > development and root structures,,, building the plants defensive > capabilities. > the last 2 powdered live born products simulate an intrinsic systemic > microbacterial infection, and fugial infection,, the only purpose of this > is > to Trick the marijuana plant into goin on its defensive, by produciing > more > thc and filling the glands of the plant with oils,,, their defense > mechanism,, > this creates higher thc plants!!!! proven science too,,  when a group of > exact clones were grown side by side and one given this routine the other > group not,, the control group scored on average 5-7 % thc higher than when > this product line is not used,, making better medications. > every product is interrelated and all are needed for the overall end > product > to be excellent. > i am not sure if i would fork over 1grand every grow for this regime had i > not been sponsored,,, > well thats about all thats new,,, with me,, > sorry for the long absence,,, > my excuse,, not ms > 2 kids, 2 soccer teams, 3 practices a week, fine arts for daughter > mondays, > ballet on tuesdays,  pac meeting tonight,  to school and back 3 times a > day,,, ambulatory care all last week,,dinner lunches, breakfasts, > homework, > friends commin over, laundry, add the new trampoline in the backyard,, > plus get this ,, my black lab has Epilepsy,,, no shit eh!!!! she has > seizures,, every 6 months ,, > bobD

Fuck Bob, it sounds like you have more on your plate than you need, especially considering the MS.  I hope stuff gets better while Im gone.  MS sucks shit. Rob

Response:

"Rob Duncan" <robdun…@gbronline.com> wrote in message

news:SuWdnXM3OshmA_zcRVn-tg@gbronline.com… > Bob, YO!   Are you out there?  Whats up?  Im going on another vacation > Wednesday.  Are you okay? > Rob

i am having a severe attack ,  both legs have shut down and i have even worse nerve pain all over my body,,, never thought that would be possible,, but i cant even handle wearing socks on my feet it hurts so bad,, first cold of the year for me,, and this happens,, i have all sorts of news too, i have been doin just fine using my new marijuana capsule regime i am on,, i discussed this with my doctor recently and i informed him of the BIG difference between marinol/nabilone and REAl marijuana. his thc pills that had a dose of 1mg per pill at a cost of 814 dollars for a 4 per day rx,,  of 120 pills ,did NOT CONTAIN even close  to the amount of thc mgs in 1 single joint of marijuana i smoke . at a cost of under 5 dollars for one joint for more thc medication than 1 month of his garbage,,,, then i reminded him of the measured CBD’s i have in my marijuana too, many cannabinoids which are being shown to be what affects Ms more than thc,,, my doctor asked me if THEY, did not do any comparison efficacy testing?? when they developed the measured dosage for me to use in Canada.??? you tell me i said!!!!! i am just disgusted with this JOKE, thc crap pills my capsules are measured 50mg dosages of thc plus the other ingredients found in real marijuana- cannabinoids,,, i am testing these pills before they start their controlled drug study,, at no cost to me,, all i do is submit my individual findings of how these capsules help me, or not,, any side effects i have positive or negative, what symptoms of my disease do i find are being treated if any,, etc etc. so far i have been using an effective dose of 8 caps per day,, or 400mgs of real thc in nabilone pills this dose would cost healthcare 2800 per day,, the pills might go for 3 bucks each for the high dose. also i get more benefit from a specific strain too,, even though they caps are all the same measured dose,, certain marijuana strains are providiong more relief,,, targeting more specific probs i have. of the strains of marijuana caps i have,, i have found the sativa blends lame,, i prefer the UBC Chemo pills strain, has more effect on me and is a pure indica strain. these caps are also being offered in 25 and 12 mg  doses,, my job is to TEST THE LIMITS of these pills. so far there is NO overdose level.!!!! that i can find,,, they are all organic too,, nabilone contains sesamea oil,, these are measured doses of pure marijuana extract reconstituted back into spent organic plant matter then into gel caps,,, also i have 2 new super deadly medicinal grade marijuana strains goin. one is the ubc northern lights that my buddy had tested there, and it came in at 36% thc content,, and very high CBD numbers too,, which are cannabinoids!!! a most potent medical grade pot i have ever seen,,, for comparison the Health Canada shit tested at like 5-7% ,, this stuff is 6-7 times more potent,, meaning instead of smoking 30 joints a day of shit and gettin no relief,, i will smoke 1/5 that and benefit like i never could,, i have tested all the strains i am using now they are unreal,,,very potent,, better than anything i have ever used. the second i am trying is called  Mazzar , another very potent indica,,, what i am looking for is something to use instead of narcotics like morphine,, so i need the most potent indica around,, indicas work more like a sedative or a pain killer,, sativas work more like  cylert/alertec  more of a cyber head buzz very UP,, energetic type of effects,,, also i have hooked up with Advanced Nutes and am gettin their entire line of grow products free of charge in exchange for my final numbers using their products,,, following their exact feeding procedures. so far i am very impressed with their technology in how they establish a plant immune system and then initiate a viral infection- simulated, which causes the plants immune system response- extrude mass amounts of THC and OIL, trichomes, this is what they learned and the products are not even plant food but  if you check out these 4 products you will understand their purpose. voodoo juice scorpion juice tarantula powder pirhanna powder these are all beneficial bacteria live born and beneficial fungi -live born,, the first 2 juice products insitiate massive immune system development and root structures,,, building the plants defensive capabilities. the last 2 powdered live born products simulate an intrinsic systemic microbacterial infection, and fugial infection,, the only purpose of this is to Trick the marijuana plant into goin on its defensive, by produciing more thc and filling the glands of the plant with oils,,, their defense mechanism,, this creates higher thc plants!!!! proven science too,,  when a group of exact clones were grown side by side and one given this routine the other group not,, the control group scored on average 5-7 % thc higher than when this product line is not used,, making better medications. every product is interrelated and all are needed for the overall end product to be excellent. i am not sure if i would fork over 1grand every grow for this regime had i not been sponsored,,, well thats about all thats new,,, with me,, sorry for the long absence,,, my excuse,, not ms 2 kids, 2 soccer teams, 3 practices a week, fine arts for daughter mondays, ballet on tuesdays,  pac meeting tonight,  to school and back 3 times a day,,, ambulatory care all last week,,dinner lunches, breakfasts, homework, friends commin over, laundry, add the new trampoline in the backyard,, plus get this ,, my black lab has Epilepsy,,, no shit eh!!!! she has seizures,, every 6 months ,, bobD

Response:

Bob, YO!   Are you out there?  Whats up?  Im going on another vacation Wednesday.  Are you okay? Rob

Response:

Question:

Actually, CO2 DOES  displace air quite effectively, particularly when it is injected into the carboy or barrel slowly…as Ray says, don’t blast it in.   Additionally, when you release it from a pressurized cylinder, it comes out quite cold, and dense, and sinks rapidly below any air.  You can tell when it’s full by feeling the cold gas coming out.  Also, as it warms up to ambient, it will expand more. "Dry ice" is a form of CO2, and its shipment in aircraft is treated as dangerous goods because of the risks of displacing all the oxygen as it sublimates.

Response:

The volume of O2 in the headspace of a carboy is negligible.  Beyond that, CO2 has a tendency to absorb into the wine and or/dissipate into the air, so it won’t be present for any appreciable length of time.  Purging the O2 from the receiving carboy makes more sense than attempting to purge the headspace afterwards.  But as Bill already pointed out, this technique is used when racking larger vessels where the contact time is more significant.  With that said, out of habit, I do purge my carboys before filling, though I don’t work a whole lot with carboys.  Usually excess or topping material. clyde

Clyde: I use Argon instead of CO2 but I understand your preference due to the olfactory detection method.  Although I have been generally satisfied with my Argon usage, I am interested to know what you and other suggest for negative pressure on air locks. On those occasions when the negative pressure is enough to draw outside air back into the carboy or other container, how much should one be concerned?  Is it considered neglegible or should some other pressure relief apparatus be employed?  I am presently experiencing this phenomenon due to the storm that is now hitting us here in Virginia. Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated. Mike

Response:

I’m thinking a better approach might be to get a good kit wine and just use it for topping all of the carboys if the carboy size reduction idea does not fit.  I combine all of my ‘leftovers’ (red and white seperately) into one carboy and use that for topping, it gets smaller and smaller each rack.  (I like those cute little 3 gallon carboys for this…) If the carboy is topped normally I would not worry about air pulled through the airlock, it’s not much volume.  I sulfite that water in the airlock out of habit too. Joe – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The volume of O2 in the headspace of a carboy is negligible.  Beyond that, CO2 has a tendency to absorb into the wine and or/dissipate into the air, so it won’t be present for any appreciable length of time.  Purging the O2 from the receiving carboy makes more sense than attempting to purge the headspace afterwards.  But as Bill already pointed out, this technique is used when racking larger vessels where the contact time is more significant.  With that said, out of habit, I do purge my carboys before filling, though I don’t work a whole lot with carboys.  Usually excess or topping material. clyde Clyde: I use Argon instead of CO2 but I understand your preference due to the olfactory detection method.  Although I have been generally satisfied with my Argon usage, I am interested to know what you and other suggest for negative pressure on air locks. On those occasions when the negative pressure is enough to draw outside air back into the carboy or other container, how much should one be concerned?  Is it considered neglegible or should some other pressure relief apparatus be employed?  I am presently experiencing this phenomenon due to the storm that is now hitting us here in Virginia. Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated. Mike

Response:

Good point.  I knew I was oversimplifying by assuming perfect and instant mixing.  But most of us do not have a model to determine it more accurately.  It will displace better than I indicated.  I, however, did not take into account the fact that it will be cold and that will certainly aid in displacing the air.  This is a more important point than the perfect mixing issue.  You are correct.  What the efficiency of the displacement is, I would not know and drought anyone else does accurately.   As I said, I will use smaller carboys to get around the problem. Ray   Actually, CO2 DOES  displace air quite effectively, particularly when it is injected into the carboy or barrel slowly…as Ray says, don’t blast it in.     Additionally, when you release it from a pressurized cylinder, it comes out quite cold, and dense, and sinks rapidly below any air.  You can tell when it’s full by feeling the cold gas coming out.  Also, as it warms up to ambient, it will expand more.   "Dry ice" is a form of CO2, and its shipment in aircraft is treated as dangerous goods because of the risks of displacing all the oxygen as it sublimates.

Response:

Just a thought,  but aren’t we all producing massive amounts of free CO2 every day. May be you could use some sort of tubing system to pass active fermentation exhaust over storage/ empty carboys! Just a throw away comment that may have some merit.   Anyone? Paul

Response:

  1. When purging a receiving carboy before racking how can you tell when the carboy is full of CO2?

The presence and concentration (with a little practice) of CO2 can be detected with the nose.  Mind you, it has no odor (look back a couple years in the archives if you want to know what I’m referring to) but it *can* be detected with the nose… at least with my big snauzch.  Has a kind of burning sensation, like when Champagne comes out your nose.  Being able to easily detect it’s presence is the only reason I prefer CO2 over Argon.   2.Is it more efficient to So2 protect wine, rack and then top up with CO2 and then ferment lock – (use less CO2). (again how do you know when the free head space has been taken up with CO2?)

The volume of O2 in the headspace of a carboy is negligible.  Beyond that, CO2 has a tendency to absorb into the wine and or/dissipate into the air, so it won’t be present for any appreciable length of time.  Purging the O2 from the receiving carboy makes more sense than attempting to purge the headspace afterwards.  But as Bill already pointed out, this technique is used when racking larger vessels where the contact time is more significant.  With that said, out of habit, I do purge my carboys before filling, though I don’t work a whole lot with carboys.  Usually excess or topping material.   3. What pressure should be set on the regulator?

As low as possible. To do this properly, one should have a flow meter, but by using a large diameter hose (1/2" id) and putting the airflow as light as possible and at the bottom of the vessel, nominal mixing of the CO2 with air can be accomplished.  The effectiveness of this technique is easily documented by monitoring SO2 consumptions during transfer.  Take a reading before and after to see the effect.   4. Total waste of time?

Possibly: unless it really makes you feel good to do it.  Then it’s very valuable!! clyde

Response:

CO2 does not displace the air in the carboy, it mixes with it and dilutes it.  It does not displace it as a piston.  So you can not "fill" the carboy with CO2,  you can dilute out the O2.  If you have 1/2 cu.ft. air space and you put 1/2 cu.ft. of CO2 in, you will cut the O2 in half.  Put another 1/2 cu.ft. in and you will cut it in half again.  If you calculate it out, to cut 1/2 cu.ft. air space down to the equivalent of 1.5 to 2 cu.in. of air you will need to put in about 10 cu. ft. CO2.  Do it slowly, just enough flow to dimple the surface.  You don’t want to blast it into the wine. I would suggest you get some different size carboys.  When I use a 6.5 gal carboy I plane on going to a 5 gal. and then have some 1/2 gal jugs for the extra.  I think this is a cheaper and more satisfying solution. Ray

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have checked with a local bottling company to see if I could purchase a 20# CO2 cylinder to use for purging/protecting some carboys that need racking.  It seems when racking off a 6gal carboy I end up with about 5-1/2 gal which I then need to top up.  I have quite a few carboys (10) 4 varieties and 5 which are second runs and do not have the surplus wine to top up.  I don’t see myself getting out of fresh wine making any time soon so I think I can justify the expense.  The refundable deposit on the tank is $50.00 and a refill is $20.00.  I have already have a regulator that I can use. My question is four fold   1. When purging a receiving carboy before racking how can you tell when the carboy is full of CO2?   2.Is it more efficient to So2 protect wine, rack and then top up with CO2 and then ferment lock – (use less CO2). (again how do you know when the free head space has been taken up with CO2?)   3. What pressure should be set on the regulator?   4. Total waste of time?  These carboys will not see bottles until late summer just in time to be freed up for the next grape harvest.

Response:

It seems when racking off a 6gal carboy I end up with about 5-1/2 gal which I then need to top up.  

You might consider racking into a 19 liter carboy plus some 1 liter wine bottles fitted with airlocks. The 19l carboys are actually larger than 19l so not as much wine is left over as you might think. The 1 l bottles can then be used for top up wine. That basically is my plan for my next kit. However I think once the 1 liter is fermented out I would transfer it down to 375 ml bottles as you usually do not need a full 1l for top ups. I might not have this plan fully figured out yet but we’ll see what surfaces when I try it. I want to avoid buying a like wine to top up with and I do not like the hassles and possibility of unknown chemicals in marbles. Don

Response:

 1. When purging a receiving carboy before racking how can you tell when the carboy is full of CO2?

Answer~You could fill the carboy with water.  Siphon the water out of the carboy while adding CO2 at the same time.  Test by lowering a lit match into the carboy.  It will stop burning since there is too little oxygen in the carboy.  2.Is it more efficient to So2 protect wine, rack and then top up with CO2 and then ferment lock – (use less CO2). (again how do you know when the free head space has been taken up with CO2?)

Answer~It would use less CO2 but you will get many carboys worth of gas out of your 20# cylinder.  Do the match test on the head space.  3. What pressure should be set on the regulator?

Answer~set it at 5 to 10 psi.  This should be sufficient CO2 flow.  4. Total waste of time?

Answer~I’m not sure.  It’s probably overkill for small volumes like you and I work with but it can’t hurt.  Seems like I remember Clyde saying he purges his tanks before wine transfer but he’s working with a lot more wine and the time taken for trafsfer probably is a lot longer.   Some others may comment on this but you could add about 20ppm SO2 to scavenge oxygen picked up during the racking step. But a word of caution…don’t count on purging the headspace of a partially filled carboy with CO2, or other inert gas, to protect your wine from oxidation.  Learned this the hard way with wine stored in a 1/2 empty SS Corny keg (thought it was air tight). Fill those carboys up to the stopper. Bill Frazier Olathe, Kansas

Response:

I have checked with a local bottling company to see if I could purchase a 20# CO2 cylinder to use for purging/protecting some carboys that need racking.  It seems when racking off a 6gal carboy I end up with about 5-1/2 gal which I then need to top up.  I have quite a few carboys (10) 4 varieties and 5 which are second runs and do not have the surplus wine to top up.  I don’t see myself getting out of fresh wine making any time soon so I think I can justify the expense.  The refundable deposit on the tank is $50.00 and a refill is $20.00.  I have already have a regulator that I can use. My question is four fold   1. When purging a receiving carboy before racking how can you tell when the carboy is full of CO2?   2.Is it more efficient to So2 protect wine, rack and then top up with CO2 and then ferment lock – (use less CO2). (again how do you know when the free head space has been taken up with CO2?)   3. What pressure should be set on the regulator?   4. Total waste of time?  These carboys will not see bottles until late summer just in time to be freed up for the next grape harvest.

Response:

Question:

Daniel Pambianchi’s paperback book, "Tehniques in Home Winemaking" is my "go-to" reference. Lee

Response:

I am looking for the best books that you people have read preferably about traditional wine making from grapes.  Please list your favourites. Thanks! Jason

Response:

Well, if you just want grape wine instead of proper country wine then go to "From Vines to Wine" by Cox.  Good reading and very informative. Ray

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking for the best books that you people have read preferably about traditional wine making from grapes.  Please list your favourites. Thanks! Jason

Response:

I am looking for the best books that you people have read preferably about traditional wine making from grapes.  Please list your favourites. Thanks! Jason

Hi Jason, Here is my list. Yair Margalit, Concepts in wine Chemistry, San Francisco: Wine Appreciation Guild Ltd., 1997. (For commercial wineriesand for advanced home winemakers). Ough, C. S., Winemaking Basics, New York: Haworth Press, Inc., 1992. (This is an excellent reference for the advanced home winemaker). Yair Margalit, Winery Technology & Operations, San Francisco: Wine Appreciation Guild Ltd., 1990.  (For the small to medium size winery or for the advanced home winemaker). David Jackson, Danny Schuster, The Production of Grapes and Wine in Cool Climates, Wellington, New Zealand: Buterworths, 1987.  (A well written book covering grape varieties, grape growing and winemaking). Philip Jackisch, Modern Winemaking, Ithaca: Cornell University Press, 1985. (Excellent book for beginning winemakers) Jeff Cox, From Grapes to Wine, New York: Harper and Row, 1985.  (Good book for beginning home winemakers, covers grape growing and winemaking). Emile Peynaud, Knowing and Making Wine, 2nd ed., New York: John Wiley & Sons, 1984.  (Excellent reference book for advanced home winemakers a famous French enologist). Richard P. Vine, Commercial Winemaking, Westport: AVI Publishing Co., 1981. (This reference book is suitable for commercial wineries and a few advanced home winemakers). Amerine, M. A., et al, Technology of Winemaking, 4th ed.,  Westport, Conn.: AVI Publishing Co., 1980.  (Current text at UCD.  A detailed work on wine technology for professionals, graduate students and advanced amateurs). Philip Wagner, Grapes into Wine, New York: A. A. Knopf, 1976.  (An excellent book for beginning home winemakers, the easy to read and clearly written text covers all of the basics). A. Dinsmoor Webb, editor, Chemistry of Winemaking, Washington, D.C.: American Chemical Society, Advances in Chemistry Series 137, 1974.  (A technical reference book on wine chemistry). Amerine, M. A. and M. A. Joslyn, Table wines: The Technology of Their Production, 2nd ed., Berkeley: University of California Press, 1970.  (This standard enology textbook is suitable for professionals and advanced amateur winemakers). Regards, lum

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Question:

Jeff, The purpose of the first racking a little before the wine is dry (i.e. around 1.005-ish) is to get the wine into a better-sealed container before the production of CO2 slows down.  As the sugar supply gets lower and lower the fermentation and production of CO2 slows (and eventually stops) — since there is less CO2 to blanket the wine and protect it from oxidation, it is at greater risk.  Also, by 1.005 or so, the wine shouldn’t be fermenting strongly enough to blow foam and gunk out of the airlock of the carboy.  So it’s the best time to transfer and prevent oxidation.  You generally won’t get much dead yeast left behind — most of that sediment will drop in the week or two following that first racking into the carboy. You really need to use carboys, or similar vessels that have an excellent seal and little head space, after the initial early fermentation.  Unless you want to greatly increase the risk of spoilage. Some people advocate fermenting kits in a carboy from the get-go, in which case you can skip the first racking.  You do, however, need to use a little less water at the start and top up later — otherwise you’ll likely blow a lot of foam & gunk (including oak chips, if used) out of your airlock and make a real mess.  Other people say this is a bad idea because the yeast need O2 at the beginning of the primary ferment.  I have done it in the carboy a few times with kits, using the typical Premier Cuvee yeast as well as Pasteur Red yeast, with excellent results.  However, I had one high-end Brew King kit that came with Lalvin AC yeast — I fermented it in the carboy and it had a nasty H2S (rotten egg smell) problem during the primary fermentation. So now I generally do the primary in the bucket (especially since I’m now doing mostly grape and fruit wines instead of kits). Cheers! Richard – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks everyone! My primaries were sealed wine-kit buckets with airlocks. One had a less-perfect seal apparently, but now I have siphoned that wine into an airlocked and sealed carboy. Both kits are now filled to near the top. Maybe I’ll go look for a bit of that sulfite, just in case I need it sometime. Do you have to get it at a wine making shop?

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I bought a couple of the high-end Brew King kits (Selection Barolo Style and Selection Estate BC Chardonnay). I’ve liked my Brew King kits results before, but haven’t tried the fancier ones yet. I’ve read some of the posts here and look forward to making my own fresh juice wines soon, as my brother and I are reviving an orchard and vineyard on his farm. Anyway, I left the kits in primary fermentation for 2 weeks rather than the suggested 5-7 days and I just checked the hydrometer and both are well below 1 now. The kit says to go to secondary at 1.010 "or less." I just siphoned them into carboys for secondary. Where I’m supposed to leave the wine for 10 days until it gets to .996. —Which is where the wine seems to be right now, approx. Have I caused trouble? Damage? Also, after I siphoned my Chardonnay into a new carboy I saw I didn’t have a lid for it, so I cleaned then just POURED the wine back into the primary. It fizzed and foamed. …And made me wonder if all that aeration was a BAD THING. Any notions? THANKS! — http://OutYourBackdoor.com — a friendly ezine of modern folkways and culture revival … offering a line of alternative books and a world of bikes, boats, skis … plus shops for great sleeper books, videos and music … plus nationwide "Off the Beaten Path" travel forums for local-style fun, bumperstickers and a new social magnet game! …Holy Smokes!!!

Response:

Anyway, I left the kits in primary fermentation for 2 weeks rather than the suggested 5-7 days and I just checked the hydrometer and both are well below 1 now. The kit says to go to secondary at 1.010 "or less." I just siphoned them into carboys for secondary. Where I’m supposed to leave the wine for 10 days until it gets to .996. —Which is where the wine seems to be right now, approx. Have I caused trouble? Damage?

Probably not I would think, but the problem here is the air getting to the wine and causing oxidation. Now that your going to the secondary not much CO2 will be produced to blanket the must/wine, therefore topping up closer to the airlock and not leaving 4" or 6" of air over top of the wine would be the way to go. In a similar situation I have shaken the carboy after installing the new airlock inorder to force CO2 from the wine/must into replacing the air under the lock. I think the experts here will tell you over and over to top up and watch out for possible oxidation. So limit your wines contact with oxygen at all times other than the first couple of days when the yeast needs some O2 for getting started. Also, after I siphoned my Chardonnay into a new carboy I saw I didn’t have a lid for it, so I cleaned then just POURED the wine back into the primary. It fizzed and foamed. …And made me wonder if all that aeration was a BAD THING.

Again the problem is air. Why would you not have a lid for a carboy? Do you mean airlock? If that is the case you could have made a quick one with some plastic wrap and an elastic. You could use that in place of an airlock or until you can go out and get another airlock. Don

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I think the experts here will tell you over and over to top up and watch out for possible oxidation. So limit your wines contact with oxygen at all times other than the first couple of days when the yeast needs some O2 for getting started.

Ah ha! Thanks a bunch for that tip. Also, after I siphoned my Chardonnay into a new carboy I saw I didn’t have a lid for it, so I cleaned then just POURED the wine back into the primary. It fizzed and foamed. …And made me wonder if all that aeration was a BAD THING. Again the problem is air. Why would you not have a lid for a carboy? Do you mean airlock? If that is the case you could have made a quick one with some plastic wrap and an elastic.

I had a bunch of buckets and not enough lids, I realized. So I poured it back into my first bucket (a different shape) which DID have a lid. It is sealed now. Actually, it’s well-sealed but not perfectly sealed. Hmmm, I think I’ll work on getting that wine into a better container. So you’re saying that now that my fermentation seems mostly done (.996) that I should be mostly concerned about oxidation? That makes sense to me. The third step in my kit says when the gravity hits that figure to add the clarifiers and TOP UP. It looks like I let my Brewking Fancy kits hit .996 in primary and it sounds like that’s not disaster, but now I should hop to Step 3? By the kit info, I should’ve racked to my secondary from 1.010 until it hit .996. I guess that would be to get it off of the early dead yeast or something? Oh well, I missed my chance to do that. So maybe Step 2 is pointless for me? — http://OutYourBackdoor.com — a friendly ezine of modern folkways and culture revival … offering a line of alternative books and a world of bikes, boats, skis … plus shops for great sleeper books, videos and music … plus nationwide "Off the Beaten Path" travel forums for local-style fun, bumperstickers and a new social magnet game! …Holy Smokes!!!

Response:

Thanks again everyone. My wine seems fine. I’m into clarifying now. — http://OutYourBackdoor.com — a friendly ezine of modern folkways and culture revival…offering a line of alternative books and a world of bikes, boats, skis…plus shops for great sleeper books, videos and music …plus nationwide "Off the Beaten Path" travel forums for local fun, bumperstickers and a new social magnet stickers! …Holy Smokes!!!

Response:

I had a bunch of buckets and not enough lids, I realized. So I poured it back into my first bucket (a different shape) which DID have a lid. It is sealed now. Actually, it’s well-sealed but not perfectly sealed. Hmmm, I think I’ll work on getting that wine into a better container.

Jeff, It sounds like your not using a carboy but instead just buckets. That sounds like a mistake if it is what your doing. The carboy serves a definite purpose in that it minimizes contact with O2. In combination with the airlock which acts as a one way valve the O2 is forced out by the CO2 being created in the last stages of fermentation. That’s why the kit manufacturers tell you to switch over to them before fermentation is complete. At least that is my firm belief. If you leave the wine in a bucket it would be difficult to imagine it not oxidizing unless you had a very good seal and an airlock on the bucket. I wouldn’t recommend trying that. Get a carboy and an airlock. Top up to within two inches of the air lock. Perhaps less if there is still some fermentation to go or perhaps more if your near the end. Don

Response:

Thanks everyone! My primaries were sealed wine-kit buckets with airlocks. One had a less-perfect seal apparently, but now I have siphoned that wine into an airlocked and sealed carboy. Both kits are now filled to near the top. Maybe I’ll go look for a bit of that sulfite, just in case I need it sometime. Do you have to get it at a wine making shop? — http://OutYourBackdoor.com — a friendly ezine of modern folkways and culture revival … offering a line of alternative books and a world of bikes, boats, skis … plus shops for great sleeper books, videos and music … plus nationwide "Off the Beaten Path" travel forums for local-style fun, bumperstickers and a new social magnet game! …Holy Smokes!!!

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Jeff, Go to:    http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search?hl=en and spend some serious time reading the archives of rec.crafts.winemaking. Do a search on "potassium metabisufite" and/or "SO2" and read for awhile, do a search on "topping up" and read for awhile. It’s the best advice any of us can give. AND, go to these links and read:    http://home.att.net/~lumeisenman/contents.html    http://www.members.tripod.com/~BRotter/    http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/index.asp Don

Response:

Don’t worry about your primary not having a perfect seal.  You are not trying to keep 100% of air out during primary.  Mostly you are trying to keep the bugs out.  A little air is good during primary. Especially with your first few batches, it is natural to worry about these things.  After all you don’t know what to worry about during those times. But do some reading on wine making.  Don’t get all your info from here.  Get your urgent questions answered here.  Read some good books and you will get a better overall view of winemaking and what is important. Ray

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks everyone! My primaries were sealed wine-kit buckets with airlocks. One had a less-perfect seal apparently, but now I have siphoned that wine into an airlocked and sealed carboy. Both kits are now filled to near the top. Maybe I’ll go look for a bit of that sulfite, just in case I need it sometime. Do you have to get it at a wine making shop? — http://OutYourBackdoor.com — a friendly ezine of modern folkways and culture revival … offering a line of alternative books and a world of bikes, boats, skis … plus shops for great sleeper books, videos and music … plus nationwide "Off the Beaten Path" travel forums for local-style fun, bumperstickers and a new social magnet game! …Holy Smokes!!!

Response:

You probably do not have a problem.  Don’t worry about it but if it is not very good you have a reason.  As far as the fizzing and foaming when you poured it back into the primary.  No problem.  You were just degassing it which is something you would do later anyway.  Actually that was CO2 coming off which would be displacing the air in the carboy which was a good thing at this point and indicates that it was probably still fermenting which would have been (hopefully) protecting it during the extended time in the primary.  Many of the primaries these days are actually sealed units with airlocks rather than the old buckets with cloth over the top.  It this was the case then I would not worry at all. But be sure to keep it topped up from here on out.  It will be less forgiving from this point. Ray

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I bought a couple of the high-end Brew King kits (Selection Barolo Style and Selection Estate BC Chardonnay). I’ve liked my Brew King kits results before, but haven’t tried the fancier ones yet. I’ve read some of the posts here and look forward to making my own fresh juice wines soon, as my brother and I are reviving an orchard and vineyard on his farm. Anyway, I left the kits in primary fermentation for 2 weeks rather than the suggested 5-7 days and I just checked the hydrometer and both are well below 1 now. The kit says to go to secondary at 1.010 "or less." I just siphoned them into carboys for secondary. Where I’m supposed to leave the wine for 10 days until it gets to .996. —Which is where the wine seems to be right now, approx. Have I caused trouble? Damage? Also, after I siphoned my Chardonnay into a new carboy I saw I didn’t have a lid for it, so I cleaned then just POURED the wine back into the primary. It fizzed and foamed. …And made me wonder if all that aeration was a BAD THING. Any notions? THANKS! — http://OutYourBackdoor.com — a friendly ezine of modern folkways and culture revival … offering a line of alternative books and a world of bikes, boats, skis … plus shops for great sleeper books, videos and music … plus nationwide "Off the Beaten Path" travel forums for local-style fun, bumperstickers and a new social magnet game! …Holy Smokes!!!

Response:

Jeff, How much damage you did depends on how air-tight your primary was.  If not at all, that sounds really scary. In any case, get it into a carboy and topped up with an airlock.  I would also add more potassium metabisulphite, as all the oxidation you’ve let happen will have reduced it drastically.  Maybe others will disagree, but I think at this point you’re into "damage control" territory and adding a bit too much sulfite would be a much better risk than not having enough to protect the wine from all of the airborn invaders that you may have been exposing the wine to… Good Luck! Richard – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I bought a couple of the high-end Brew King kits (Selection Barolo Style and Selection Estate BC Chardonnay). I’ve liked my Brew King kits results before, but haven’t tried the fancier ones yet. I’ve read some of the posts here and look forward to making my own fresh juice wines soon, as my brother and I are reviving an orchard and vineyard on his farm. Anyway, I left the kits in primary fermentation for 2 weeks rather than the suggested 5-7 days and I just checked the hydrometer and both are well below 1 now. The kit says to go to secondary at 1.010 "or less." I just siphoned them into carboys for secondary. Where I’m supposed to leave the wine for 10 days until it gets to .996. —Which is where the wine seems to be right now, approx. Have I caused trouble? Damage? Also, after I siphoned my Chardonnay into a new carboy I saw I didn’t have a lid for it, so I cleaned then just POURED the wine back into the primary. It fizzed and foamed. …And made me wonder if all that aeration was a BAD THING. Any notions? THANKS! — http://OutYourBackdoor.com — a friendly ezine of modern folkways and culture revival … offering a line of alternative books and a world of bikes, boats, skis … plus shops for great sleeper books, videos and music … plus nationwide "Off the Beaten Path" travel forums for local-style fun, bumperstickers and a new social magnet game! …Holy Smokes!!!

Response:

Question:

Depending on how you view this newsgroup … (I usually use google unless I feel like posting ) this was a reply to a message from Lum on using Regina Juices – hence the "off topic" title. Anyway thanks guys for the replies, I think it is interesting that of the grapes listed by Lum the one that has disappeared off the list is Mataro. Ofcourse my guess is that the growers now refer to it as Mouverdre and sell it off to the big wineries as a quality blending component. If you read older references to grapes from the central valley you often see reccomendations for Mataro. In the 5 years (off and on) that I have been going to local suppliers for central valley grapes I have never seen Mataro offered. Joe – I whole heartedly agree with your comments about Chenin Blanc. Many writers have good things to say about it’s French incarnation – especially Vouvray (although I haven’t had the pleasure) and occasionally a South African reference . And to put it a bit back on topic I think my best white to date has been a Chenin Blanc from Regina Juice I picked up in the 2000 vintage. STeve

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Steve; That’s interesting, I use a lot of Regina juice too.  I did not pick up any Chenin this year, since I made Reisling also and it have a much better nose than the Chenin last year. Mataro is not sold around here anymore either; but now we get Cabernet Franc and Nebbiolo, which never showed up before.  I wonder if phyloxera ate it up and they just replanted better ‘money’ grapes… Just speculation. On Lums’ comments, I was raised on jug wines in Pittsburgh, back when Gallo was still pretty much a jug wine producer.  If we bought Gallo we were ’splurging’; we loved the Chablis and Rhine Mountain.  I bet there was no Chardonnay or Reisling in either, I’ll bet it was Chenin or Columbard.  No matter, we liked it. Regards, Joe – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Depending on how you view this newsgroup … (I usually use google unless I feel like posting ) this was a reply to a message from Lum on using Regina Juices – hence the "off topic" title. Anyway thanks guys for the replies, I think it is interesting that of the grapes listed by Lum the one that has disappeared off the list is Mataro. Ofcourse my guess is that the growers now refer to it as Mouverdre and sell it off to the big wineries as a quality blending component. If you read older references to grapes from the central valley you often see reccomendations for Mataro. In the 5 years (off and on) that I have been going to local suppliers for central valley grapes I have never seen Mataro offered. Joe – I whole heartedly agree with your comments about Chenin Blanc. Many writers have good things to say about it’s French incarnation – especially Vouvray (although I haven’t had the pleasure) and occasionally a South African reference . And to put it a bit back on topic I think my best white to date has been a Chenin Blanc from Regina Juice I picked up in the 2000 vintage. STeve

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I bought Cab Sauv from Regina this year; it was S.G. 1.093, pH3.70, TA was really low at 4.87 g/l.  I blended in 1/3 Cab Franc with a TA of 8.66 to balance out the acids. Hope this helps.  Sorry for the late reply. Joe – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I got 12 lugs of Zinfandel grapes less than a week ago.  They were in perfect condition.  They are Regina brand, as are the white juices I get.  I’m happy with both, although the juices are always already fermenting. I’ve never tried to make a red from juice, for reasons you mention, but your words are encouraging.  Might try that in the future if I can’t get grapes. vince norris Vince     I just got a bucket of Cabernet Sauvignon Ragina Juice that is well into    fermentation(SG=1.040) and has a strong green apple odor that I hope goes away with further fermentation and MLF. I hope that MLF starts, which from what I have read on this group, should start on it’s own. Do you think I’ll have problems with this juice so far fermented in the bucket, and the green apple smell? How did your wine turn out with your partially fermented juice and do you know what the SG was when you purchased it. I can only assume the SG is close to correct before shiped from CA.?? By the way, the juice was cold when I got it and it does have the alcohol smell to it. Thanks you and everyones help regarding this fun fun fun new hobbie!!!! Jesse

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I got 12 lugs of Zinfandel grapes less than a week ago.  They were in perfect condition.  They are Regina brand, as are the white juices I get.  I’m happy with both, although the juices are always already fermenting. I’ve never tried to make a red from juice, for reasons you mention, but your words are encouraging.  Might try that in the future if I can’t get grapes. vince norris

Vince     I just got a bucket of Cabernet Sauvignon Ragina Juice that is well into    fermentation(SG=1.040) and has a strong green apple odor that I hope goes away with further fermentation and MLF. I hope that MLF starts, which from what I have read on this group, should start on it’s own. Do you think I’ll have problems with this juice so far fermented in the bucket, and the green apple smell? How did your wine turn out with your partially fermented juice and do you know what the SG was when you purchased it. I can only assume the SG is close to correct before shiped from CA.?? By the way, the juice was cold when I got it and it does have the alcohol smell to it. Thanks you and everyones help regarding this fun fun fun new hobbie!!!! Jesse

Response:

Me too, but I’m starting to use those 375 ml bottles now for the ‘you never gave me a bottle’ stragglers; it kills me when I’m out of a good one and see it hanging around over their house awaiting that special occasion.  What if it’s corked?  I’ll  feel like an idiot explaining that whole debate… ) Regards, Joe

Joe, I always guaranty my wine when I give it away.  If they return a bottle, I give them two bottles of the same wine.  I haven’t had many complaints lately. Regards, lum

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Me too, but I’m starting to use those 375 ml bottles now for the ‘you never gave me a bottle’ stragglers; it kills me when I’m out of a good one and see it hanging around over their house awaiting that special occasion.  What if it’s corked?  I’ll  feel like an idiot explaining that whole debate… ) Regards, Joe – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m impressed!  But what do you do with that much wine? Friends,  neighbors, sales? Bart I have many, very happy friends Bart. Regards, lum

Response:

Steve, you are speaking my language here. Most of my wine is made from Central Valley fruit, the pricing is phenomenal and we make very good wine with it.  I’m making Valdepena and Syrah (as usual); I’ve made Carignane. I have one 5 year old Valdepena left that we will be drinking soon.  The best wine I ever made was a Grenache Rose last year, I could not have been happier with it. We are not interesting in making expensive wine, just good table wine.  I’m not convinced the two are mutually exclusive.  It’s food to us. If I had access to better grapes or juice at a reasonable price you can believe I would go that way, but in Pittsburgh you really do not have a lot of options.  What is reasonable to one person is ridiculous to another so it all comes down to whether you are happy with the end result.  We are. I’ve read at least 50 books on wine and know where you are coming from, but have been surprised to find some writers are not so disparaging about workhorse grapes. I usually make Chenin Blanc, another work horse, and to be honest school is out on that one; Vouvray is very good wine indeed.  Is mine as good as the French version? Nope.  Is it still good?  Yep.  I’ve had Dry Creek, Chapellet (sp?) and Beringer Chenin Blanc that are supposed to be well thought of and to be honest it surely was no better than mine year for year.  Well made wine is just that.  The Beringer was horridly sweet, I gave it away. (Ok, I’m exaggerating, but it dfid not have to be that sweet…) The others were well made and very pleasant.  So is ours. Regards, Joe – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Lum – I guess many of us have noticed that your (wonderful) text on winemaking uses Carignan as the sample red wine fermentation case study. I have always thought it interesting that you chose to use that grape, but clearly there is a vote for one of the workhorse grapes of the world. In an attempt to make better and better home wines we are all focussing on those high brow grapes –  and spending a lot for them. I think the varietal craze has been a detriment to the wine affair in many ways. One of the reasons a lot of us were drawn into making wine was to save money – or at least it was part of the excuse we used. I think it would worthwhile dropping the sophistication a bit here and getting seriously into a discussion of what can be done with the classic Lodi grapes like – Carignan, Alicante, Valdespenas, Grenache, Mission etc. Most sources in texts and on the web tend to disparage these grapes – yet I know they can with care be made into sound _everyday_ wines. Heck you need something to drink on Wednesday night with the take out from Pizza Hut … and it ain’t going to be my $8.00/bottle hand-made Sonoma Cab. One thing to consider is that these grapes are probably those best suited to the central valley climate, and given that they aren’t trendy I would be willing to bet that they would almost all classify as "old vines" if you were to ask. I don’t know for sure, but I am willing to bet nobody in Lodi has planted Valdespenas (aka Tempranillo the great Rioja grape) in any quantity in a very long time. just my 2 cents. steve

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Doug is a great guy, me too.  That second wine turns out fair, eh? It’s a thought.  And I thought $2 a bottle was pretty cheap… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes, I’m from Pittsburgh, Premier produce gets about 40 to 50 tractor trailer loads of Regina juice and Pia grapes each year.  They are a wholesaler so you have to go down there between midnite and 6 AM, but that works fine for me.  If you are interested in juice you can get NY state juice from Walkers Press House in Forestville NY; (they can ship it too).  I get some grapes and juice from Presque Isle near Erie too. I drove up to North East to buy grapes and juice from Doug Morehead for many years.  (He is one fine guy, and I still buy all my supplies from him.)  But it is so much cheaper to get grapes and juice from Altoona, delivered to my door than to drive my car to North East and back. I think the red Zin was $31 a pail this year. I paid $28 for each 36-pound lug of Zins, and $36 for each 6-gallon bucket of Chardonnay juice. The Zins were too high in sugar so I added four gallons of water to bring the juice to 24 brix. After the Zins had fermented for several days and the Brix was low, I racked out 20 gallon of free-run juice. The I added 20 gallons of water with sugar added to 24 brix, and tartaric acid to .78%. Today, I pressed out 38 gallons of that blend of juice and added water. So I got 58 gallons of wine for $336, or about $1.16 per bottle.   Been doing it that way for years.  The second-run wine has plenty of body and color. My wife likes it better than the first run, which she says is "too thick." vince

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Lum – I guess many of us have noticed that your (wonderful) text on winemaking uses Carignan as the sample red wine fermentation case study. I have always thought it interesting that you chose to use that grape, but clearly there is a vote for one of the workhorse grapes of the world. In an attempt to make better and better home wines we are all focussing on those high brow grapes –  and spending a lot for them. I think the varietal craze has been a detriment to the wine affair in many ways. One of the reasons a lot of us were drawn into making wine was to save money – or at least it was part of the excuse we used. I think it would worthwhile dropping the sophistication a bit here and getting seriously into a discussion of what can be done with the classic Lodi grapes like – Carignan, Alicante, Valdespenas, Grenache, Mission etc. Most sources in texts and on the web tend to disparage these grapes – yet I know they can with care be made into sound _everyday_ wines. Heck you need something to drink on Wednesday night with the take out from Pizza Hut … and it ain’t going to be my $8.00/bottle hand-made Sonoma Cab. One thing to consider is that these grapes are probably those best suited to the central valley climate, and given that they aren’t trendy I would be willing to bet that they would almost all classify as "old vines" if you were to ask. I don’t know for sure, but I am willing to bet nobody in Lodi has planted Valdespenas (aka Tempranillo the great Rioja grape) in any quantity in a very long time. just my 2 cents. steve

Hi Steve, I was born and raised in Riverside (CA) and worked in the Cucamonga vineyards and wineries when I was a teenager.  Cucamonga has much the same climate as the Central Valley, and the grape varieties consisted mostly of Carignane, Mataro, Grenache, Mission, Zinfandel and Alicante Bouschet (to add a little color). In those days, the better wines were often blends, and most were sold in bulk. You always brought your own gallon jugs because a new jug cost more than the wine.  I was raised on these kinds of wines, and I always thought they washed the pasta down pretty well.  Heck, I was 30 years old before I knew Cabernet Sauvignon existed. Regards, lum

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I’m impressed!  But what do you do with that much wine? Friends, neighbors, sales? Bart

I have many, very happy friends Bart. Regards, lum

Response:

Lum – I guess many of us have noticed that your (wonderful) text on winemaking uses Carignan as the sample red wine fermentation case study. I have always thought it interesting that you chose to use that grape, but clearly there is a vote for one of the workhorse grapes of the world. In an attempt to make better and better home wines we are all focussing on those high brow grapes –  and spending a lot for them. I think the varietal craze has been a detriment to the wine affair in many ways. One of the reasons a lot of us were drawn into making wine was to save money – or at least it was part of the excuse we used. I think it would worthwhile dropping the sophistication a bit here and getting seriously into a discussion of what can be done with the classic Lodi grapes like – Carignan, Alicante, Valdespenas, Grenache, Mission etc. Most sources in texts and on the web tend to disparage these grapes – yet I know they can with care be made into sound _everyday_ wines. Heck you need something to drink on Wednesday night with the take out from Pizza Hut … and it ain’t going to be my $8.00/bottle hand-made Sonoma Cab. One thing to consider is that these grapes are probably those best suited to the central valley climate, and given that they aren’t trendy I would be willing to bet that they would almost all classify as "old vines" if you were to ask. I don’t know for sure, but I am willing to bet nobody in Lodi has planted Valdespenas (aka Tempranillo the great Rioja grape) in any quantity in a very long time. just my 2 cents. steve

Response:

Doug is a great guy, me too.  That second wine turns out fair, eh? It’s a thought.  And I thought $2 a bottle was pretty cheap…

Hi Joe, Here’s cheap.  I pay $400 per ton for local Carignane grapes.  The wine is not plonk.  It has won several gold and silver medals over the years. I bottle about 155 gallons per ton from these grapes.  That is 775 bottles, so the cost is about $0.52 per bottle. Anyone out there doing better than $0.52 per bottle? Regards, lum

Response:

I’m impressed!  But what do you do with that much wine? Friends, neighbors, sales? Bart

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Doug is a great guy, me too.  That second wine turns out fair, eh? It’s a thought.  And I thought $2 a bottle was pretty cheap… Hi Joe, Here’s cheap.  I pay $400 per ton for local Carignane grapes.  The wine is not plonk.  It has won several gold and silver medals over the years. I bottle about 155 gallons per ton from these grapes.  That is 775 bottles, so the cost is about $0.52 per bottle. Anyone out there doing better than $0.52 per bottle? Regards, lum

Response:

Yes, I’m from Pittsburgh, Premier produce gets about 40 to 50 tractor trailer loads of Regina juice and Pia grapes each year.  They are a wholesaler so you have to go down there between midnite and 6 AM, but that works fine for me.  If you are interested in juice you can get NY state juice from Walkers Press House in Forestville NY; (they can ship it too).  I get some grapes and juice from Presque Isle near Erie too.

I drove up to North East to buy grapes and juice from Doug Morehead for many years.  (He is one fine guy, and I still buy all my supplies from him.)  But it is so much cheaper to get grapes and juice from Altoona, delivered to my door than to drive my car to North East and back. I think the red Zin was $31 a pail this year.

I paid $28 for each 36-pound lug of Zins, and $36 for each 6-gallon bucket of Chardonnay juice. The Zins were too high in sugar so I added four gallons of water to bring the juice to 24 brix. After the Zins had fermented for several days and the Brix was low, I racked out 20 gallon of free-run juice. The I added 20 gallons of water with sugar added to 24 brix, and tartaric acid to .78%. Today, I pressed out 38 gallons of that blend of juice and added water. So I got 58 gallons of wine for $336, or about $1.16 per bottle.   Been doing it that way for years.  The second-run wine has plenty of body and color. My wife likes it better than the first run, which she says is "too thick." vince

Response:

Jesse It really depends on what you want to get out of it.  I use Regina and think it superior to both Alexanders and Home Wines, I’m not sure about Lodi Gold, it’s not available in Pgh anymore.  Those are the big guys out in California’s central valley where all of this juice comes from.

Joe, I assume "Pgh" means Pittsburgh, PA.  I live in State College, PA, and get both (white) juice and (red) grapes from a wholesale produce dealer in Altoona, who gets them from some place in Pittsburgh. I got 12 lugs of Zinfandel grapes less than a week ago.  They were in perfect condition.  They are Regina brand, as are the white juices I get.  I’m happy with both, although the juices are always already fermenting. I’ve never tried to make a red from juice, for reasons you mention, but your words are encouraging.  Might try that in the future if I can’t get grapes. vince norris

Response:

Hi Vince; Yes, I’m from Pittsburgh, Premier produce gets about 40 to 50 tractor trailer loads of Regina juice and Pia grapes each year.  They are a wholesaler so you have to go down there between midnite and 6 AM, but that works fine for me.  If you are interested in juice you can get NY state juice from Walkers Press House in Forestville NY; (they can ship it too).  I get some grapes and juice from Presque Isle near Erie too. I bought 4 lugs of Grenache this year; the sugar was high and acid low, but that was expected…  It makes a great rose. I have only gotten one pail of juice that ended up light in color; it was a merlot a few years back.  If that happens you are out of luck, you get what you get.  It was still ok, but no one in their right mind would call any of these big wines. That said they take oaking well and age well; our reds usually age for around 2 to 5 years before they are gone. I think the red Zin was $31 a pail this year. Regards, Joe – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jesse It really depends on what you want to get out of it.  I use Regina and think it superior to both Alexanders and Home Wines, I’m not sure about Lodi Gold, it’s not available in Pgh anymore.  Those are the big guys out in California’s central valley where all of this juice comes from. Joe, I assume "Pgh" means Pittsburgh, PA.  I live in State College, PA, and get both (white) juice and (red) grapes from a wholesale produce dealer in Altoona, who gets them from some place in Pittsburgh. I got 12 lugs of Zinfandel grapes less than a week ago.  They were in perfect condition.  They are Regina brand, as are the white juices I get.  I’m happy with both, although the juices are always already fermenting. I’ve never tried to make a red from juice, for reasons you mention, but your words are encouraging.  Might try that in the future if I can’t get grapes. vince norris

Response:

I want to make good red wine but can not get good fresh grapes. I’m looking for anyone who has had good results using Regina juice and how they processed it. Thanks Jesse

Response:

I have used it for the first time this year. This was a test for me also. So far, it has a much better color than Alexanders. I will be racking soon and will have a better idea. Tim

Response:

I have used it for the first time this year. This was a test for me also. So far, it has a much better color than Alexanders. I will be racking soon and will have a better idea. Tim

Tim, I’m new to wine making and not familair with any presqueezed grape juice. Did the wine have a good taste when made with Alexanders? Is it processed differently then using fresh grapes. It sounds like there is no primary fermentation required. Keep me posted on how your wine is coming and what kind of grape was used. Thanks Jesse

Response:

I want to make good red wine but can not get good fresh grapes. I’m looking for anyone who has had good results using Regina juice and how they processed it. Thanks Jesse

Hi Jesse,  High quality, red wine grapes have clear, colorless juice.  All of the red color is in the grape skins, so the juice, pulp, skins and seeds are fermented together to extract the color from the skins.  Besides the color, other materials, including tannin and other materials, are extracted from the skins and seeds while the solids are in contact with the juice.  These materials produce the slight bitterness, astringency and flavors typical of red wines. Making good red wines from juice is difficult because the juice contains no skins or other solids. Regards, lum

Response:

Jesse It really depends on what you want to get out of it.  I use Regina and think it superior to both Alexanders and Home Wines, I’m not sure about Lodi Gold, it’s not available in Pgh anymore.  Those are the big guys out in California’s central valley where all of this juice comes from. I’ve been using Regina for 8 years and I like it; that said when people tell you that it’s hard to make a superior red wine from juice they are not wrong. You have two things against you.  First and most important, these grapes were grown in the wrong place; it’s just too hot in the central valley for some of these grapes.  Second, you have no control over extraction, you have no skins to extract color and tannin from.  What is typically done to get color in a red juice is to crush the grapes and heat them with steam to extract color as they are pressed. All of that said, I make pretty good wine from this at a fraction of the cost others are willing to pay.  (And you get what you pay for, no doubt about that.) I get 6 gallon pails of Syrah for under $35 a pail; it’s great juice. It makes great table wine as far as I am concerned. But that is all I am looking for, decent table wine for friends and family. I would go with that juice, especially if you are just starting out. It is very easy to make well.  This year we have several reds going; Cabernet Sauvignon, Cabernet Franc, Nebbiolo, Pinot Noir and Syrah; all Regina.  I make white too and get some juice from up north also. And yes, I do make some wine from grapes, but it’s a rose.  It’s from central valley Grenache.  It’s wonderful wine. My email is attached or you can get me at this group if you have further questions. Hope this helps. Regards, Joe – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I want to make good red wine but can not get good fresh grapes. I’m looking for anyone who has had good results using Regina juice and how they processed it. Thanks Jesse

Response:

Question:

has anyone tried one of the 67 dollar Ph Meters from Laboratory Mart yet?

Response:

Sam I didn’t get that one.  It is a pretty decent price, the only thing I do not see is a comment on ATC. Here is a FAQ you might want to review if you are in the market for a pH meter. http://www.remarq.com/read/makewine/q_7qNop8XcP0C-1FQ#LR I just bought a cheapy from Fisher Scientific to test, it’s accuracy was supposed to be 0.02 but it looks like they derated it to 0.04.  I will use it again today to decide whether I’m keeping it or not.  Right now I think the probe drifts more than I want. It cost $70 with shipping. My old reliable Hanna pHEP 3 is still working, it’s 2 years old and only cost about $60 with shipping.  I love that meter, it’s only drawback is a lack of resolution, it only resolves 0.1. Personally, I think that is fine, but there is some merit in having another digit of resolution.  Just remember to get buffers, pH meters are logarithmic devices and calibration is very important. Joe * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

I purchased the $35 Omega (PHH-7X) and have found that it works fine to determine TA endpoint but with a PH accuracy of +/-0.2 and constant drift problems that it is not very good for accurate PH determination of wine. It is somewhat deceptive since the scale has a resolution of 0.01. -The Newt King – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anyone recommend a good PH meter? Karl-Here’s a post from Dave Burley, a well respected beer and winemaker, that appeared on the Home Brew Digest.  You might check out Omega. I bought a pH meter from them years ago and it still calibrates and works fine. Bill Frazier Olathe, Kansas HBD Post~ "I recently purchased a pH meter from from OMEGA ( www.omega.com) for $35 that works excellently and the replacement electrode is only $22. Delivery was overnight, since my old pH meter bit the root after 7 or 8 years and I was in the middle grape picking and wine making. Works fine for my needs and should work fine for beer making.  Just be sure the wort is at room temperature  as it should be anyway) since the electrode is not temperature compensated. BTW make sure if you use pH papers that the wort is at room temperature as well, as these are only calibrated at 20C." Based on the physical appearance and specs of the $35 pH meter available from Omega (PHH-7X), it would appear that this is the exact same thing as the Hanna Checker.

Response:

Originally Karl Dinger asked if someone could recommend a pH meter. Florian refers to an old post of mine in which I mention the Omega. The New King bought a $35 Omega and has trouble with pH drift and doesn’t think it’s accurate enough for straight wine pH measurements. Karl, and others…I bought an Omega PHH-78604 meter for about $65 back in 1996.  The meter is accurate to 0.15 pH units and has a resolution of 0.01 pH units.  It would be nice if the meter had greater accuracy but at the time, and for the money, it seemed like a good deal. I’ve replaced the electrode once and I replace batteries each year when I start testing my grapes. Now, pH meters require some care…not a lot, but some. You need fresh batteries (if your unit is portable). You need to keep your electrode soaking in buffer solution.   (pH 4 is recommended).  I keep my electrode immersed   in about 2 ounces of buffer.  I change buffer when I notice   growth in the liquid.   Keep it wet. You need to standardize the meter before each use.   Use fresh buffer solution.  I use pH 3.1 buffer for straight   wine pH measurements.  I use pH 7.1 buffer for TA tests.   (Note-I titrate to pH 8.2 for TA measurements). You should check for drift if you are doing a lot of tests.   Just return the electrode to the standard buffer solution   and adjust if needed. If you do the above an inexpensive Omega, or other meter should work well enough for home winemakers.  It’s probably a good idea to buy one with a replaceable electrode.  They do wear out and can break.  I believe that anyone interested enough to do TA titrations should use a pH meter to determine end point.   End point color change is very subjective and more so with red wines.  With the pH meter and a decent titration set TA measurements are simple. Bill Frazier Olathe, Kansas

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anyone recommend a good PH meter? Karl-Here’s a post from Dave Burley, a well respected beer and winemaker, that appeared on the Home Brew Digest.  You might check out Omega. I bought a pH meter from them years ago and it still calibrates and works fine. Bill Frazier Olathe, Kansas HBD Post~ "I recently purchased a pH meter from from OMEGA ( www.omega.com) for $35 that works excellently and the replacement electrode is only $22. Delivery was overnight, since my old pH meter bit the root after 7 or 8 years and I was in the middle grape picking and wine making. Works fine for my needs and should work fine for beer making.  Just be sure the wort is at room temperature  as it should be anyway) since the electrode is not temperature compensated. BTW make sure if you use pH papers that the wort is at room temperature as well, as these are only calibrated at 20C."

Based on the physical appearance and specs of the $35 pH meter available from Omega (PHH-7X), it would appear that this is the exact same thing as the Hanna Checker.

Response:

Corning pH-20 from https://www.daigger.com/ $69.00 + shipping. (mine arrived yesterday) The Corning website has additional "usage" material (tech sheets/care/cleaning) the box came with packets of calibration fluid, Automatic Temp Correction (ATC 0-50C), +/- .02 accuracy from a leader in laboratory equipment and replaceable bulb.  Comes in a "case" to keep bulb protected .  Also the tip has a cap to be filled with buffer 7 to keep it neutral during extended storage periods. Specifically: https://www.daigger.com/control/catalog.product?deptId=pH+Testers&pro… 6A

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anyone recommend a good PH meter? I have a "Hanna" checker (my second) and consider it a waste of money, almost impossible to calibrate- unreliable, etc. Karl Dinger

Response:

mmmm……I don’t have personal experience with the Hanna checker, I have a Hanna Piccolo that is absolutely great.  I have used a Hanna Phep2 for years in an industrial environment with casual operators the beat the tar out of them.  Again, can say nothing bad.    The piccolo has 0.01 unit resolution, the Phep has 0.1 resolution. What did you store the probe in?  KCL is really the best choice.  Water can ruin the probe, and pH 7 buffer for long periods of time can degrade it. Dewey

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anyone recommend a good PH meter? I have a "Hanna" checker (my second) and consider it a waste of money, almost impossible to calibrate- unreliable, etc. Karl Dinger

Response:

Karl, You might want to consider getting a new probe for your Checker, from a reputable supplier that has frequent inventory turnover.  I had horrible and frustrating results from mine the first season — I’m sure it had sat on the counter for years and the probe was bad.  I ranted about it quite a bit on this ng last year.  I later bought a new probe quite cheaply from an aquarium supply place on the ‘net (can’t remember the name) and it has calibrated easily and worked very well ever since. You could also try contacting Hanna via their website.  I did so at the time, and they replied to me right away.  They seemed pretty willing to help, but asked that I tried to resolve it with the retailer first (I didn’t want the hassle because it was kind of a backwoods store with horrible customer service, and I was just fed up).  I ordered the new probe later once I was feeling a little less disgusted… Good Luck, Richard – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anyone recommend a good PH meter? I have a "Hanna" checker (my second) and consider it a waste of money, almost impossible to calibrate- unreliable, etc. Karl Dinger

Response:

Can anyone recommend a good PH meter?

Karl-Here’s a post from Dave Burley, a well respected beer and winemaker, that appeared on the Home Brew Digest.  You might check out Omega. I bought a pH meter from them years ago and it still calibrates and works fine. Bill Frazier Olathe, Kansas HBD Post~ "I recently purchased a pH meter from from OMEGA ( www.omega.com) for $35 that works excellently and the replacement electrode is only $22. Delivery was overnight, since my old pH meter bit the root after 7 or 8 years and I was in the middle grape picking and wine making. Works fine for my needs and should work fine for beer making.  Just be sure the wort is at room temperature  as it should be anyway) since the electrode is not temperature compensated. BTW make sure if you use pH papers that the wort is at room temperature as well, as these are only calibrated at 20C."

Response:

Can anyone recommend a good PH meter? I have a "Hanna" checker (my second) and consider it a waste of money, almost impossible to calibrate- unreliable, etc. Karl Dinger

Response:

Question:

Thanks for your reply Richard…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Folks, My apologies in advance if this topic has been addressed in the past. I did try and do a search, but Google wasn’t playing nicely with me&#8230;. I just finished my first wine kit back in April and followed the advice from this group and have the wine bulk aging in a glass carboy. I really enjoyed the process and would now like to try my hand at making a fresh grape wine&#8230;.. I do have a couple of questions I was hoping I could get answers to&#8230;. (1)   What equipment will I need? Quite a bit, especially if you want to do a decent job and not work your fingers to the bone like I’ve been doing      – something to crush the grapes, preferably a crusher/destemmer (you can search this ng for "milk crate" for a cheaper alternative that I should have tried instead of crushing by hand)      – something to press the grapes/must, preferably a basket press.  These are expensive, but I’m building my own this weekend out of oak and steel for about $50US — instead of a ratchet mechanism it will be powered by a hydraulic bottle jack that I have kickin’ around      – a pH meter and an acid test kit      – if you plan to use MLF, a paper chromatography kit to help you know when it’s complete and safe to bottle      – a lot of time to spend reading this ng, websites, and books! (2)   Oak barrel&#8230; I can get a new one almost free but not sure if they are more trouble than they are worth. I must admit they have a certain appeal for some reason but not sure what to do here&#8230; If it’s new and almost free, take it before the offer disappears!   If you decide you don’t want it, you can always send it to me  I would love to have a small barrel, but they’re just too expensive for me at this point. (3)   How do I make fresh grape wine? Can this be "cooked" in the barrel? Any recipes out there for red wine? Get a good book or two.  Check this site http://home.att.net/~lumeisenman/, and also check out www.jackkeller.net/winemaking.  You don’t want to ferment reds in the barrel, but rather use it for bulk aging (I assume by "cooked" you mean fermented, since you never cook wine…) (4)   Where can I get fresh grapes in the Southern New Jersey/Metro Philly area? For less expensive grapes, you might try to find a local Italian market. Sorry for all the questions&#8230; Any advice would really be appreciated. Thanks!! Good Luck, and Have Fun!!! Richard

Response:

You can get "grape juice" at GINO’s in Hammonton. Its on Rt 30. They sell alot of juice all in 7 gal buckets shipped in from CA. I think they should be getting it in soon, call them. Tom — Home of the MOON RIVER BREWERY

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Folks, My apologies in advance if this topic has been addressed in the past. I did try and do a search, but Google wasn’t playing nicely with me.. I just finished my first wine kit back in April and followed the advice from this group and have the wine bulk aging in a glass carboy. I really enjoyed the process and would now like to try my hand at making a fresh grape wine… I do have a couple of questions I was hoping I could get answers to.. (1) What equipment will I need? (2) Oak barrel. I can get a new one almost free but not sure if they are more trouble than they are worth. I must admit they have a certain appeal for some reason but not sure what to do here. (3) How do I make fresh grape wine? Can this be "cooked" in the barrel? Any recipes out there for red wine? (4) Where can I get fresh grapes in the Southern New Jersey/Metro Philly area? Sorry for all the questions. Any advice would really be appreciated. Thanks!!

Response:

Hi Folks, My apologies in advance if this topic has been addressed in the past. I did try and do a search, but Google wasn’t playing nicely with me&#8230;. I just finished my first wine kit back in April and followed the advice from this group and have the wine bulk aging in a glass carboy. I really enjoyed the process and would now like to try my hand at making a fresh grape wine&#8230;.. I do have a couple of questions I was hoping I could get answers to&#8230;. (1)        What equipment will I need?

Quite a bit, especially if you want to do a decent job and not work your fingers to the bone like I’ve been doing      – something to crush the grapes, preferably a crusher/destemmer (you can search this ng for "milk crate" for a cheaper alternative that I should have tried instead of crushing by hand)      – something to press the grapes/must, preferably a basket press.  These are expensive, but I’m building my own this weekend out of oak and steel for about $50US — instead of a ratchet mechanism it will be powered by a hydraulic bottle jack that I have kickin’ around      – a pH meter and an acid test kit      – if you plan to use MLF, a paper chromatography kit to help you know when it’s complete and safe to bottle      – a lot of time to spend reading this ng, websites, and books! (2)        Oak barrel&#8230; I can get a new one almost free but not sure if they are more trouble than they are worth. I must admit they have a certain appeal for some reason but not sure what to do here&#8230;

If it’s new and almost free, take it before the offer disappears!   If you decide you don’t want it, you can always send it to me  I would love to have a small barrel, but they’re just too expensive for me at this point. (3)        How do I make fresh grape wine? Can this be "cooked" in the barrel? Any recipes out there for red wine?

Get a good book or two.  Check this site http://home.att.net/~lumeisenman/, and also check out www.jackkeller.net/winemaking.  You don’t want to ferment reds in the barrel, but rather use it for bulk aging (I assume by "cooked" you mean fermented, since you never cook wine…) (4)        Where can I get fresh grapes in the Southern New Jersey/Metro Philly area?

For less expensive grapes, you might try to find a local Italian market. Sorry for all the questions&#8230; Any advice would really be appreciated. Thanks!!

Good Luck, and Have Fun!!! Richard

Response:

Hi Folks, My apologies in advance if this topic has been addressed in the past. I did try and do a search, but Google wasn’t playing nicely with me

Question:

Brooke, Check out this web site: http://www.allamericanwineries.com/AAWMain/locate.htm Regards, Gary http://home.carolina.rr.com/winemaking/

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know of any wineries in Iowa and/or Minnesota? Thanks, Brooke

Response:

Does anyone know of any wineries in Iowa and/or Minnesota? Thanks, Brooke

Response:

Hello, I am from MN. There are a few here. Stillwater,MN has 2 or 3. New Ulm, MN has a brewery and a winery a few miles away. Both cities have web pages and links to the wineries. I have been to these and they are pretty good. They have tasting at all of them. There is also one up by Duluth (I think ?). Mick

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know of any wineries in Iowa and/or Minnesota? Thanks, Brooke

Response:

From USA Today 6/28/2002  For Iowa try: www.iowawineandbeer.com  (Iowa Wine and Beer Promotion Board) For Minnesota, try the Minnesota Grape Growers Association at: www.mngrapes.com Cheers, Jamie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know of any wineries in Iowa and/or Minnesota? Thanks, Brooke

Response:

The two I would recommend would be Alexis Bailey near the cities (Hastings) and Carlos Creek in Alexandria, MN. Both are excellent examples of MN wines. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I am from MN. There are a few here. Stillwater,MN has 2 or 3. New Ulm, MN has a brewery and a winery a few miles away. Both cities have web pages and links to the wineries. I have been to these and they are pretty good. They have tasting at all of them. There is also one up by Duluth (I think ?). Mick Does anyone know of any wineries in Iowa and/or Minnesota? Thanks, Brooke

Response:

Does anyone know of any wineries in Iowa and/or Minnesota? Thanks, Brooke

The Amana Colonies area in East-central IA have at least one winery – maybe more. Mostly country wines, as I recall. The colonies are an interesting place – the product of a religious sect in the 1800’s looking to develop a self sufficient society.

Response:

More Local INFO:   Growing Info. Source:  http://cowboyjournal.okstate.edu/cjfall01/growin1.html ATB, Karl B. Growing the grapes of wealth      Chateau de Oklahoma?      That’s what most Oklahomans are asking about the state’s newest agricultural enterprise, viniferous grapes. That is, grapes that are good enough for making wine, right here in the state made famous by John Steinbeck’s The Grapes of Wrath.      How wonderfully, sweetly, ironic.      Dean McCraw, extension specialist in Oklahoma State University’s Department of Horticulture and Landscape Architecture, doesn’t think it is ironic at all. In fact, he has become aware of the growing passion for grapes and wine in Oklahoma in the past few years. He said the interest significantly increased with the passing of state legislation last year that allows Oklahoma wineries to sell their product directly to restaurants and retail liquor stores, bypassing the wholesale route. A few of the wines are already being featured in liquor stores.      The new interest is the reason McCraw currently teaches a Cooperative Extension course called "Oklahoma Grape Management." The course started in February and will end in October.      The objective of the course is to familiarize present and potential Oklahoma grape growers with grape management requirements throughout the growing season. Although he originally limited the class to 50 participants, the demand was so strong the class size was increased 50 percent to 75 participants. Even so, McCraw said, there are still a lot of people being left out.      "We are kind of trolling with the grape program right now," McCraw said. "The administration has committed to support the program for five years to see where these individuals will go with it."      McCraw said interest in growing grapes has been partly increased by farmers who are looking for an alternative crop, or even something that is more visually pleasing than Oklahoma’s traditional cash crops. He said the backgrounds and intents of those taking the class are, however, "about as diverse as you could get."      Take Ralph Kremier, for example. A self-titled semi-retiree, he is looking for another source of income in addition to his cattle. Aware of the pricey setup cost per acre of a vineyard, his primary purpose in the class is to find out if grapes will grow well in the soil and microclimate where he lives, near Lucine, Okla.      "I think in Oklahoma most anyone can grow these grapes. It just depends with what quality," Kremier said.      The president of the Oklahoma Grape Growers and Winemakers Association, Bob McBratney of Haskell, Okla., said people who are interested should definitely "go into it with their eyes open."      "It behooves people to get a good educational background in this before they invest any amount of time, because it’s really capital-intensive and labor-intensive," he said.      While it may appear that making wine for years got him the position of president of the Oklahoma Grape Growers and Wine Makers Association, the truth is that he retired just last year from his "real" career. He was a physician for 25 years, only hobbying in grapes and wine for the last three years before he officially launched his family business, Stone Bluff Cellars Inn, located 10 miles southeast of Bixby, Okla. Alongside the vineyard and the winery, the McBratneys also own and manage a bed and breakfast.      "We wanted something at the farm that would be interesting to [guests] while being economically viable at the same time," he said.      His wife, Sandy, and son, Brendan, keep up with the accounting and sales/marketing responsibilities, respectively. The workload, Bob McBratney has learned, is much heavier than he had originally expected. Although the work is somewhat seasonal on his three and one-half acre vineyard, as with any other type of agriculture, grapes require attention year-round. Maintaining trellises, pruning, spraying, shoot tying, cluster positioning and thinning, and pest monitoring are just a few of the chores, and then, of course, there’s harvest.      Brendan McBratney, a 1998 graduate of the OSU College of Business, said he thinks everyone in Oklahoma’s grape and wine industry knows about McCraw’s class.      Bob McBratney, one of McCraw’s students, seems to already know a lot about the business, as evidenced by the awards Stone Bluff Cellars has won. Stone Bluff’s wines stand up to nationwide and international competition. In addition to winning two gold medals and the "Best in Oklahoma" award in the year 2000, they also received a silver medal in the Taster’s Guild International Competition in August 2000.      They have had success with the Vignoles variety grape, which yields semisweet white wines. One Stone Bluff specialty, for example, is a light port or dessert wine called Royale, which is made from Vignoles grapes and blackberries.      Stone Bluff produced about 1,500 gallons of wine last year, about one-fourth of the 6,000 total gallons produced across the state.      If that sounds like a lot, just hold your corks, because Oklahomans drank 11 million gallons of wine last year.      "The market potential is large," McCraw said. "Some producers will be successful, some won’t. We try to provide as much information as possible so they will be able to make educated decisions about it."      The key role the Oklahoma Cooperative Extension Service has in this course, he said, is to help identify which varieties will be successful with Oklahoma’s microclimates and which cultural practices will ensure long-term growth in the industry.      "It will be an evolutionary industry," he said. "Oklahoma grape growers and wine makers will evolve to meet the needs of the Oklahoma consumers."      There may even be a niche market for some specialized regional wines that are commemorative of the state’s great history, he said.      As far as the money to be made in this business, McCraw said the grape program is a large investment and the risk is great, since the capital is focused in such a small area. A small hailstorm, he said, could ruin an entire year’s crop of grapes.      This depth of knowledge is not entirely McCraw’s responsibility to share with students in the course, however. He has a partner, Keith Striegler, who has the position parallel to McCraw at the University of Arkansas. McCraw and Striegler became acquainted during the time Striegler worked at OSU. Also involved in some parts of the class are Sharon von Broembsen and Phil Mulder, both from the OSU Department of Entomology and Plant Pathology.      As the newest extension course being taught by OSU, it may also be the most needed, according to OSU instructor of beverage education, Bob Kane.      "I am proud to see a 21st century industry in its infancy