Winery Wiki

Question:

Here in Oz they’re often called heading-down boards, and have been in use for over a hundred years, and were probably copied from the French. You still need to pump over, and you can’t punch down (the mesh gets in the way!), but what it does do is to ensure all the cap is submerged, and that the top doesn’t dry out and go acetic. They can be a bit of a pain in the neck, as they limit options for breaking up the cap, but they are there all the time, thus maximising contact. Best used for Shiraz and other rich wines which get plenty of natural tannin extraction, as opposed to lighter varieties where a more vigorous extraction may be desired. Cheers, Andrew _______ This message is to be read as an attempt to provide information. Where possible I have attempted to indicate where this information came from. Any errors etc are mine, but I will ignore nitpicking and outbursts of LIVID ANTAGONISM in a similar manner to Gloria!

Interesting point (skin contact). This past fall I had my skin cap start to spill over the sides of my fermenter (on one batch) and it made me wonder if anyone has tried using something like a stainless steel mesh to hold the cap down in the liquid during fermentation.  Seems to me that it would greatly assist in extraction. Anyone??? Richard

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Once the fermentation slows down and you are  trying to protect it from air, it only stands to reason that a large surface area at the top will be at greater risk. However I consider the shape more important in terms of lees  The larger the area of the lees compared to the volume, the more that will have to be left From Wine Business Monthly, September 2002, page 28: "Fermentation Vessels Fermentation vessel size can greatly afect the rate of extraction.  A shorter wider tank can increase the amount of skins that are incontact with the juice and be more efficient at extracting tannins and flavor.  Gavin Berry at Plantagenet in Western Australia prefers a short squat vessel for most of his reds.  Traditional laares in Portugal’s Douro Valley were always low in order to extract lots of color and fruit. ……"

Response:

The other consideration is the circulation within the tank. Fermentation is hardly static.  With the CO2 being liberated there is a lot of movement within the vessel.  On a large scale it does make a difference.  I suspect that at the 5 gallon scale it is less important. Much research has been done on the beer side of fermentation regarding this question, check out the MBAA journal.  Sounds like there has been at least some on the wine side too. -J – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Once the fermentation slows down and you are  trying to protect it from air, it only stands to reason that a large surface area at the top will be at greater risk. However I consider the shape more important in terms of lees  The larger the area of the lees compared to the volume, the more that will have to be left From Wine Business Monthly, September 2002, page 28: "Fermentation Vessels Fermentation vessel size can greatly afect the rate of extraction.  A shorter wider tank can increase the amount of skins that are incontact with the juice and be more efficient at extracting tannins and flavor.  Gavin Berry at Plantagenet in Western Australia prefers a short squat vessel for most of his reds.  Traditional laares in Portugal’s Douro Valley were always low in order to extract lots of color and fruit. ……"

Response:

Interesting point (skin contact). This past fall I had my skin cap start to spill over the sides of my fermenter (on one batch) and it made me wonder if anyone has tried using something like a stainless steel mesh to hold the cap down in the liquid during fermentation.  Seems to me that it would greatly assist in extraction. Anyone??? Richard – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Once the fermentation slows down and you are  trying to protect it from air, it only stands to reason that a large surface area at the top will be at greater risk. However I consider the shape more important in terms of lees  The larger the area of the lees compared to the volume, the more that will have to be left From Wine Business Monthly, September 2002, page 28: "Fermentation Vessels Fermentation vessel size can greatly afect the rate of extraction.  A shorter wider tank can increase the amount of skins that are incontact with the juice and be more efficient at extracting tannins and flavor.  Gavin Berry at Plantagenet in Western Australia prefers a short squat vessel for most of his reds.  Traditional laares in Portugal’s Douro Valley were always low in order to extract lots of color and fruit. ……"

Response:

Paul — Any idea what the mechanism would be for a short wide container wielding better extraction?  I don’t see how that would increase juice contact.  Maybe something else that didn’t come to mind.

Don’t really know.  I just quoted an article I read. I guess it would have something to do with spreading the same surface of the skins over a larger surface area of the liquid beneath.  I have not really thought it through thoroughly for myself to see if it makes sense. As far as a screen to hold the skins down, I had though of using a cutting down a plastic bucket lid and drilling a lot of 1/2 in. holes then weighting it down some way to hold the skins down.  It would be easy to take it out and stir and put it back.  I only plane on trying it if I get a larger primary.  I don’t want to play with it for the 6 primaries all at once I was using this year.

At the commercial winery where I work part time, we suck the seeds off the bottom of the primary with a pump after the fermentation is well on its way and pass the juice (wine) over a screen and  and over the skins.  The seeds are then discarded.  I have not figured out a way to do this on a home wine making scale as yet. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ray Once the fermentation slows down and you are  trying to protect it from air, it only stands to reason that a large surface area at the top will be at greater risk. However I consider the shape more important in terms of lees  The larger the area of the lees compared to the volume, the more that will have to be left From Wine Business Monthly, September 2002, page 28: "Fermentation Vessels Fermentation vessel size can greatly afect the rate of extraction.  A shorter wider tank can increase the amount of skins that are incontact with the juice and be more efficient at extracting tannins and flavor.  Gavin Berry at Plantagenet in Western Australia prefers a short squat vessel for most of his reds.  Traditional laares in Portugal’s Douro Valley were always low in order to extract lots of color and fruit. ……"

Response:

Paul — Any idea what the mechanism would be for a short wide container wielding better extraction?  I don’t see how that would increase juice contact.  Maybe something else that didn’t come to mind. As far as a screen to hold the skins down, I had though of using a cutting down a plastic bucket lid and drilling a lot of 1/2 in. holes then weighting it down some way to hold the skins down.  It would be easy to take it out and stir and put it back.  I only plane on trying it if I get a larger primary.  I don’t want to play with it for the 6 primaries all at once I was using this year. Ray

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Once the fermentation slows down and you are  trying to protect it from air, it only stands to reason that a large surface area at the top will be at greater risk. However I consider the shape more important in terms of lees  The larger the area of the lees compared to the volume, the more that will have to be left From Wine Business Monthly, September 2002, page 28: "Fermentation Vessels Fermentation vessel size can greatly afect the rate of extraction.  A shorter wider tank can increase the amount of skins that are incontact with the juice and be more efficient at extracting tannins and flavor.  Gavin Berry at Plantagenet in Western Australia prefers a short squat vessel for most of his reds.  Traditional laares in Portugal’s Douro Valley were always low in order to extract lots of color and fruit. ……"

Response:

Interesting point (skin contact). This past fall I had my skin cap start to spill over the sides of my fermenter (on one batch) and it made me wonder if anyone has tried using something like a stainless steel mesh to hold the cap down in the liquid during fermentation.  Seems to me that it would greatly assist in extraction. Anyone??? Richard

Contact is one thing, but extraction also occurs through the "action" of punching down or pumping over, in that the skins are stirred and broken up a bit helping to release their goodies.   Also, punching down or pumping over provides the much needed oxygen for red fermentations.  There are a handful of systems becoming available for large scale red fermentation.  The newest style has a cone-like device midway up the tank that traps some CO2 as it’s produced.  Periodically a large bubble of CO2 gets released and that action stirs the cap.   I cannot see any advantage in these or a screen as you’ve described, for smaller batches.  I personally rather enjoy punching down my reds, so options like yours seem a bit bass ackwards to me. clyde

Response:

Interesting point (skin contact). This past fall I had my skin cap start to spill over the sides of my fermenter (on one batch) and it made me wonder if anyone has tried using something like a stainless steel mesh to hold the cap down in the liquid during fermentation.  Seems to me that it would greatly assist in extraction. Anyone??? Richard

That seems to make a lot of sense to me and I have wondered how to design such a mesh.

Response:

Has anyone tried to experiment with different shapes of fermentation vessels? Say that you use something very wide but short, or very narrow but tall vs. the traditional cyclindrical shape? Also, what about the angle? Would this have any affect on the fermentation time/taste?

Response:

Has anyone tried to experiment with different shapes of fermentation vessels? Say that you use something very wide but short, or very narrow but tall vs. the traditional cyclindrical shape? Also, what about the angle? Would this have any affect on the fermentation time/taste?

I’ve often wondered the same thing.  For instance would a open top container that is roughly 3′x2′ ferment 5 gallons different than a regular bucket? Would the additional surface area of the wine make the must ferment faster, or would it allow the c02 to dissipate more quickly and cause oxidation when Thanks for bringing this up. Nick

Response:

Once the fermentation slows down and you are  trying to protect it from air, it only stands to reason that a large surface area at the top will be at greater risk. However I consider the shape more important in terms of lees  The larger the area of the lees compared to the volume, the more that will have to be left behind when racking.  So a plumbob shaped container like the V shaped container mentioned in recent threads would be best.  But that means slopping sides and you will have to shake it slightly and frequently to get the lees to go to the bottom instead of clinging to the sloping sides. That brings us back to a cylinder with straight sides but one that is tall with a small bottom.  Should be best.  So you can go out and find one or hire a glass blower to make one for you. Then again you can use regular glass carboys which is cheaper and readily available. :O) Ray

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone tried to experiment with different shapes of fermentation vessels? Say that you use something very wide but short, or very narrow but tall vs. the traditional cyclindrical shape? Also, what about the angle? Would this have any affect on the fermentation time/taste? I’ve often wondered the same thing.  For instance would a open top container that is roughly 3′x2′ ferment 5 gallons different than a regular bucket? Would the additional surface area of the wine make the must ferment faster, or would it allow the c02 to dissipate more quickly and cause oxidation when Thanks for bringing this up. Nick

Response:

Once the fermentation slows down and you are  trying to protect it from air, it only stands to reason that a large surface area at the top will be at greater risk. However I consider the shape more important in terms of lees  The larger the area of the lees compared to the volume, the more that will have to be left

From Wine Business Monthly, September 2002, page 28: "Fermentation Vessels Fermentation vessel size can greatly afect the rate of extraction.  A shorter wider tank can increase the amount of skins that are incontact with the juice and be more efficient at extracting tannins and flavor.  Gavin Berry at Plantagenet in Western Australia prefers a short squat vessel for most of his reds.  Traditional laares in Portugal’s Douro Valley were always low in order to extract lots of color and fruit. ……"

Response:

Question:

Plastic is fine for the 1st fermentation, as long as its approved for food use.  After 12-15 days you should transfer the must to a glass carboy .

Response:

Riana, Jack Keller’s website probably has the largest collection of wine recipes available. Many more recipes than most published books. Jack’s main page also has a review of Phillip Wagner’s book "Grapes into Wine" which I think is a good book on the home wine making process. http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/ Lum Eisenman’s Home Winemaking Manual is online. Lum’s book has better of coverage of "clearing" (2 chapters) and "filtering" (1 chapter) than any published work I have seen for home and small commercial wine makers. http://home.att.net/~lumeisenman/ Best Regards, Kevin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all… I’m new to the art of wine making and would appreciate any input y’all have… recipes would be great, and tips for clearing/filtering my finished products. And can someone explain why you’re not supposed to use plastic as a primary fermenter?  I know it isn’t encouraged, but I’m curious as to why. Ri

Response:

"First Steps in Winemaking" by C J J Berry. Best getting started type of book. Explains the basics real well. Very good as a reference. A lot of good recipes. Written by an english author for an english audience making many parts of the book not relevant to a US reader (ingredients in certain recipes, the section on grape growing, english units of measurement). "The Joy of Home Winemaking" by Terry Garey. Recipes are better than First Steps. Coverage of the basics is weaker. Not real helpful as a reference. "Making Wild Wines & Meads" by Pattie Vargas and Rich Gulling. A little briefer on the basics than First Steps but still pretty good. Many exciting recipes. The Jack Keller website has a lot of recipes and info. Not really a replacement for a book though. "Progressive Winemaking" by Peter Duncan & Bryan Acton. Doesn’t cover basics much. Assumes some experience. Takes a very science oriented bend. Gives more theory and explaination than any of the books above. 1. "A stitch in time saves nine" is very true in winemaking. Follow recipes carefully, and understand the basics before getting started with your first batch. On the other hand some folks tend to get a little overly precise; daily hydrometer readings, worrying about tempetures not being exact, et cetera is not necessary. 2. Wine tends to smell and taste bad during the first several weeks. Don’t be alarmed. 3. Traditional methods tend to have more problems than modern ones; i.e. using wild yeast or crusty bread, no sulphites, or things like that. Reconsider any reactionary sediments you may have about modern chemical additives. 4. Spills and showers are probably the biggest disaster you will experience. Always plan for spills by working in rooms that can be cleaned easily while wearing old clothes. Five gallons spilled on a garage floor is a problem, but the pain reaches a whole new magnitude when you spill it on the carpet or on your best suit. The bathtub is a great place to sanitize and wash containers and transfer wine from one container to another because spills go right down the drain. The garage is also a good work area if there is space and the tempeture is right. 5. Take good notes, unless your memory is fabulous. Alcohol will dissolve substances in some plastic. This will ruin the flavor, it’s also toxic. Plastic meant for brewing will be OK, otherwise I would avoid it.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all… I’m new to the art of wine making and would appreciate any input y’all have… recipes would be great, and tips for clearing/filtering my finished products. And can someone explain why you’re not supposed to use plastic as a primary fermenter?  I know it isn’t encouraged, but I’m curious as to why. Ri

Response:

Maybe you mean "secondary fermenter" you are not supposed to use plastic. sara

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – can someone explain why you’re not supposed to use plastic as a primary fermenter?  I know it isn’t encouraged, but I’m curious as to why. I don’t know where you got that piece of advice, but many (most?) of us use plastic fermenters – especially for red wines.  I’ve even seen plastic, half-ton picking bins used for fermentation in commercial wineries for small lots of wine.  Anything made for food use should be OK, but I’ve seen regular plastic trash cans used too. Tom S

Response:

Hi all… I’m new to the art of wine making and would appreciate any input y’all have… recipes would be great, and tips for clearing/filtering my finished products. And can someone explain why you’re not supposed to use plastic as a primary fermenter?  I know it isn’t encouraged, but I’m curious as to why. Ri

Response:

can someone explain why you’re not supposed to use plastic as a primary fermenter?  I know it isn’t encouraged, but I’m curious as to why.

I don’t know where you got that piece of advice, but many (most?) of us use plastic fermenters – especially for red wines.  I’ve even seen plastic, half-ton picking bins used for fermentation in commercial wineries for small lots of wine.  Anything made for food use should be OK, but I’ve seen regular plastic trash cans used too. Tom S

Response:

Question:

[snip] I don’t think you are supposed to *smoke* the hops, just put them in the beer~

[snip] Duuuude! No wonder my buzz seemed _so_ harsh…… Walt K

Response:

From what I’ve heard, you’ll markedly improve the taste of a kit beer by using an equal quantity of dry malt in place of the corn sugar. You may want to try that first, or along with using some specialty grains. -Kevin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  i would ike to try somthing other than dry malt and corn sugar, as beer kits suggest. Ive read about using small amunts of grain, and crystal malts. but am uncertain on the amoumts to use it.  Though I have read on how to use them.  Ill be dooing my 3rd batch this weekend.  my first two I used 50/50 corn sugar/dry malt with a beer kit.   Ive already picked up the black Rock, newzealand co bitter kit.  if any one has suggestions how to make it, and info on the amounts. Id apreciate it, thanks. —–

Response:

(carry=have in stock) He means that most of the shops have kits that include the malt extract , grain etc.. I don’t think you are supposed to *smoke* the hops, just put them in the beer~ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – whats an lhbs carry kit. Most of the LHBS carry kits that include malt extract along with crushed malts. These kits come with lots of instruction. Just follow the

Response:

hanks. I know I like the specific kit i have, having made it once. so its just a matter of changing things to see what happens. that site should give me some where to start from. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Check out the recipe database at http://www.homebrew.org/AHA/index.htm You will see a mix of all grain and extract recipes.  In the extract recipes you will see ingredients like crystal malt and black patent malt.  You can read about these specialty grains in "The New Complete Joy Of Homebrewing" to find out the impact they have on things like your beer’s color and head retention.  i would ike to try somthing other than dry malt and corn sugar, as beer kits suggest. Ive read about using small amunts of grain, and crystal malts. but am uncertain on the amoumts to use it.  Though I have read on how to use them.  Ill be dooing my 3rd batch this weekend.  my first two I used 50/50 corn sugar/dry malt with a beer kit.   Ive already picked up the black Rock, newzealand co bitter kit.  if any one has suggestions how to make it, and info on the amounts. Id apreciate it, thanks. —–

Response:

thanks but Im in Edmonton canada, A bit too far to have it shipped from cali.  after shipping, border duty, and converting to canadian money. I would probaby wind up paying in the $70 range for one kit.

Saskatchewan, Canada http://www.paddockwood.com/about.html

Response:

You may try inquiring at your local Edmonton homebrewers club (http://www.ehg.ca) – perhaps there is a store with a better than average selection.  I know here in Calgary there are many crappy stores specializing in wine that may have some DME & dry yeast to go with their beer kits, but I have found at least three that have a decent selection of specialty malts. Kelvin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – thanks but Im in Edmonton canada, A bit too far to have it shipped from cali.  after shipping, border duty, and converting to canadian money. I would probaby wind up paying in the $70 range for one kit. I found some information on a local home brewers guild, so Im going contact them to see where they get there stuff. Where do you live? The two suppliers nearest to me have extensive lines of extract/adjunct kits. try Double Springs Brew Supply in Moke Hill California 1-800-465-4888 www.doublesprings.com (absolutely no affiliation). Plan to spend about $25 US for such a kit. — And there they brew a beer so brown, that the Man in the Moon himself came down one night to drink his fill. Frodo whats an lhbs carry kit.   Ive been to all the supply stores around where i live and never seen anything like that. Most just have a few caned kits, coopers, black rock etc. ive only found two stores that have crystal malt or grain, plus a few other things.  there mainly home wine making  suppy stores. Most of the LHBS carry kits that include malt extract along with crushed malts. These kits come with lots of instruction. Just follow the instructions…very easy and worth the extra cost. Use a kit ’til you get the hang of it. Later you can make your own kit and save several dollars. Cheers — And there they brew a beer so brown, that the Man in the Moon himself came down one night to drink his fill. Frodo i would ike to try somthing other than dry malt and corn sugar, as beer kits suggest. Ive read about using small amunts of grain, and crystal malts. but am uncertain on the amoumts to use it.  Though I have read on how to use them. Ill be dooing my 3rd batch this weekend.  my first two I used 50/50 corn sugar/dry malt with a beer kit.  Ive already picked up the black Rock, newzealand co bitter kit. if any one has suggestions how to make it, and info on the amounts. Id apreciate it, thanks. —–

Response:

http://www.paddockwood.com in Saskatoon.  Great guys, great service. Allan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – thanks but Im in Edmonton canada, A bit too far to have it shipped from cali.  after shipping, border duty, and converting to canadian money. I would probaby wind up paying in the $70 range for one kit. I found some information on a local home brewers guild, so Im going contact them to see where they get there stuff. Where do you live? The two suppliers nearest to me have extensive lines of extract/adjunct kits. try Double Springs Brew Supply in Moke Hill California 1-800-465-4888 www.doublesprings.com (absolutely no affiliation). Plan to spend about $25 US for such a kit. — And there they brew a beer so brown, that the Man in the Moon himself came down one night to drink his fill. Frodo whats an lhbs carry kit.   Ive been to all the supply stores around where i live and never seen anything like that. Most just have a few caned kits, coopers, black rock etc. ive only found two stores that have crystal malt or grain, plus a few other things.  there mainly home wine making  suppy stores. Most of the LHBS carry kits that include malt extract along with crushed malts. These kits come with lots of instruction. Just follow the instructions…very easy and worth the extra cost. Use a kit ’til you get the hang of it. Later you can make your own kit and save several dollars. Cheers — And there they brew a beer so brown, that the Man in the Moon himself came down one night to drink his fill. Frodo i would ike to try somthing other than dry malt and corn sugar, as beer kits suggest. Ive read about using small amunts of grain, and crystal malts. but am uncertain on the amoumts to use it.  Though I have read on how to use them. Ill be dooing my 3rd batch this weekend.  my first two I used 50/50 corn sugar/dry malt with a beer kit.  Ive already picked up the black Rock, newzealand co bitter kit. if any one has suggestions how to make it, and info on the amounts. Id apreciate it, thanks. —–

Response:

thanks but Im in Edmonton canada, A bit too far to have it shipped from cali.  after shipping, border duty, and converting to canadian money. I would probaby wind up paying in the $70 range for one kit. I found some information on a local home brewers guild, so Im going contact them to see where they get there stuff. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Where do you live? The two suppliers nearest to me have extensive lines of extract/adjunct kits. try Double Springs Brew Supply in Moke Hill California 1-800-465-4888 www.doublesprings.com (absolutely no affiliation). Plan to spend about $25 US for such a kit. — And there they brew a beer so brown, that the Man in the Moon himself came down one night to drink his fill. Frodo whats an lhbs carry kit.   Ive been to all the supply stores around where i live and never seen anything like that. Most just have a few caned kits, coopers, black rock etc. ive only found two stores that have crystal malt or grain, plus a few other things.  there mainly home wine making  suppy stores. Most of the LHBS carry kits that include malt extract along with crushed malts. These kits come with lots of instruction. Just follow the instructions…very easy and worth the extra cost. Use a kit ’til you get the hang of it. Later you can make your own kit and save several dollars. Cheers — And there they brew a beer so brown, that the Man in the Moon himself came down one night to drink his fill. Frodo i would ike to try somthing other than dry malt and corn sugar, as beer kits suggest. Ive read about using small amunts of grain, and crystal malts. but am uncertain on the amoumts to use it.  Though I have read on how to use them. Ill be dooing my 3rd batch this weekend.  my first two I used 50/50 corn sugar/dry malt with a beer kit.  Ive already picked up the black Rock, newzealand co bitter kit. if any one has suggestions how to make it, and info on the amounts. Id apreciate it, thanks. —–

Response:

Where do you live? The two suppliers nearest to me have extensive lines of extract/adjunct kits. try Double Springs Brew Supply in Moke Hill California 1-800-465-4888 www.doublesprings.com (absolutely no affiliation). Plan to spend about $25 US for such a kit. — And there they brew a beer so brown, that the Man in the Moon himself came down one night to drink his fill. Frodo

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – whats an lhbs carry kit.    Ive been to all the supply stores around where i live and never seen anything like that. Most just have a few caned kits, coopers, black rock etc. ive only found two stores that have crystal malt or grain, plus a few other things.  there mainly home wine making  suppy stores. Most of the LHBS carry kits that include malt extract along with crushed malts. These kits come with lots of instruction. Just follow the instructions…very easy and worth the extra cost. Use a kit ’til you get the hang of it. Later you can make your own kit and save several dollars. Cheers — And there they brew a beer so brown, that the Man in the Moon himself came down one night to drink his fill. Frodo  i would ike to try somthing other than dry malt and corn sugar, as beer kits suggest. Ive read about using small amunts of grain, and crystal malts. but am uncertain on the amoumts to use it.  Though I have read on how to use them.  Ill be dooing my 3rd batch this weekend.  my first two I used 50/50 corn sugar/dry malt with a beer kit.   Ive already picked up the black Rock, newzealand co bitter kit.  if any one has suggestions how to make it, and info on the amounts. Id apreciate it, thanks. —–

Response:

whats an lhbs carry kit.    Ive been to all the supply stores around where i live and never seen anything like that. Most just have a few caned kits, coopers, black rock etc. ive only found two stores that have crystal malt or grain, plus a few other things.  there mainly home wine making  suppy stores. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Most of the LHBS carry kits that include malt extract along with crushed malts. These kits come with lots of instruction. Just follow the instructions…very easy and worth the extra cost. Use a kit ’til you get the hang of it. Later you can make your own kit and save several dollars. Cheers — And there they brew a beer so brown, that the Man in the Moon himself came down one night to drink his fill. Frodo  i would ike to try somthing other than dry malt and corn sugar, as beer kits suggest. Ive read about using small amunts of grain, and crystal malts. but am uncertain on the amoumts to use it.  Though I have read on how to use them.  Ill be dooing my 3rd batch this weekend.  my first two I used 50/50 corn sugar/dry malt with a beer kit.   Ive already picked up the black Rock, newzealand co bitter kit.  if any one has suggestions how to make it, and info on the amounts. Id apreciate it, thanks. —–

Response:

  i would ike to try somthing other than dry malt and corn sugar, as beer kits suggest. Ive read about using small amunts of grain, and crystal malts. but am uncertain on the amoumts to use it.  Though I have read on how to use them.   Ill be dooing my 3rd batch this weekend.  my first two I used 50/50 corn sugar/dry malt with a beer kit.    Ive already picked up the black Rock, newzealand co bitter kit.   if any one has suggestions how to make it, and info on the amounts. Id apreciate it, thanks. —–

Response:

Most of the LHBS carry kits that include malt extract along with crushed malts. These kits come with lots of instruction. Just follow the instructions…very easy and worth the extra cost. Use a kit ’til you get the hang of it. Later you can make your own kit and save several dollars. Cheers — And there they brew a beer so brown, that the Man in the Moon himself came down one night to drink his fill. Frodo

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   i would ike to try somthing other than dry malt and corn sugar, as beer kits suggest. Ive read about using small amunts of grain, and crystal malts. but am uncertain on the amoumts to use it.  Though I have read on how to use them.   Ill be dooing my 3rd batch this weekend.  my first two I used 50/50 corn sugar/dry malt with a beer kit.    Ive already picked up the black Rock, newzealand co bitter kit.   if any one has suggestions how to make it, and info on the amounts. Id apreciate it, thanks. —–

Response:

Check out the recipe database at http://www.homebrew.org/AHA/index.htm You will see a mix of all grain and extract recipes.  In the extract recipes you will see ingredients like crystal malt and black patent malt.  You can read about these specialty grains in "The New Complete Joy Of Homebrewing" to find out the impact they have on things like your beer’s color and head retention.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   i would ike to try somthing other than dry malt and corn sugar, as beer kits suggest. Ive read about using small amunts of grain, and crystal malts. but am uncertain on the amoumts to use it.  Though I have read on how to use them.   Ill be dooing my 3rd batch this weekend.  my first two I used 50/50 corn sugar/dry malt with a beer kit.    Ive already picked up the black Rock, newzealand co bitter kit.   if any one has suggestions how to make it, and info on the amounts. Id apreciate it, thanks. —–

Response:

Question:

other place I can think of off hand is in the smoking of malt to add a smokiness (d’oh! who’d a thunk it!) to scotch ales and porters. Can’t think of any other possible use for wood swarf in the brewery, but I’ve been wrong before. Luck Mike

I have some alder set aside for malt smoking. Alaska Brewing smokes malt in a fish smokery, using alder. It’s a great taste, different than peat smoked or rauch (beech). I like it a lot. I’ll probably get around to it one of these days, as it is hard for me to find Alaska ales in So Cal. FredE

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There was a question a few minutes ago regarding home brew dust there are any other home brewers here… ever try any sawdust or wood chips in your wort?  I’ve tried just about everything else… so anyone tried

it? I will usually use oak chips when I make an IPA. Try them in  the secondary and make sure you use white oak! I tried to add some spruce to a Holiday brew I made. Didn’t really do much for ir (no aroma or taste)……

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Makes me wonder how one knows what cat piss tastes like…;)

Never having indulged myself, I wouldn’t know. Actually not entirely true, I did get pissed on by a lion when I was 5 years old, but I don’t remember the taste. The lion was in cage. My all-time favourite wine put-down line is: "I wonder how they got the cat to sit on the bottle." Courtesy of Laurie & Fry. Luigi Replace "no" with "yk" twice in address for real email adress http://www.shavings.net/anti_faq.htm

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There was a question a few minutes ago regarding home brew dust there are any other home brewers here… ever try any sawdust or wood chips in your wort?  I’ve tried just about everything else… so anyone tried it? John

I am a homebrewer and winemaker….would that be "homewiner"???…anyway, a sort of yes…oak chips, usually toasted, are sometimes used in some styles of beer, typically and wrongly (IMHO) in IPAs…that is India Pale Ale and also in the final aging of chardonnay and other heavy white wines. The only other place I can think of off hand is in the smoking of malt to add a smokiness (d’oh! who’d a thunk it!) to scotch ales and porters. Can’t think of any other possible use for wood swarf in the brewery, but I’ve been wrong before. Luck Mike

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It is pretty common among mead makers to use oak chips. Home made are just as good as the bagged ones.  Some people use em lightly toasted, others use em "raw".  The oak-tannin flavor can really add some character to an otherwise sweet or heavy drink. Sort of a poor-mans oak cask aging.

Like Andy says, oak chips are commonly used in home wine-making. However, you have to be careful to use white oak. Red oak apparently makes wine taste like cat piss. Luigi Replace "no" with "yk" twice in address for real email adress http://www.shavings.net/anti_faq.htm

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Makes me wonder how one knows what cat piss tastes like…;) " – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Like Andy says, oak chips are commonly used in home wine-making. However, you have to be careful to use white oak. Red oak apparently makes wine taste like cat piss. Luigi

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Good reminder!  Sorry I forgot to mention that. Yes, only use white oak chips!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Like Andy says, oak chips are commonly used in home wine-making. However, you have to be careful to use white oak. Red oak apparently makes wine taste like cat piss. Luigi Replace "no" with "yk" twice in address for real email adress http://www.shavings.net/anti_faq.htm

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There was a question a few minutes ago regarding home brew dust there are any other home brewers here… ever try any sawdust or wood chips in your wort?  I’ve tried just about everything else… so anyone tried it? John

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It is pretty common among mead makers to use oak chips. Home made are just as good as the bagged ones.  Some people use em lightly toasted, others use em "raw".  The oak-tannin flavor can really add some character to an otherwise sweet or heavy drink. Sort of a poor-mans oak cask aging. I would not use dust or shavings. I would only use chips, since they will be much easier to strain out later and won’t clog filters and such. AndyB

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There was a question a few minutes ago regarding home brew dust there are any other home brewers here… ever try any sawdust or wood chips in your wort?  I’ve tried just about everything else… so anyone tried it? John

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Question:

Hello to you all! I too am a beginner in the throng of  home wine makers and I just want to say that I have learned more than I had hoped ( and am still learning much more every day ) from all of your posts! All of you are great to read and always seem to be the greatest help to anyone in question. Keep up the good work and I look forward to sharing my thoughts and experiences ( and problems)  with all of you!  Michael

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There is a book titled "First Steps in Winemaking" by CV. J. J. Berry

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i have never tried making wine, where is the best place  to start, e.g good websites to try cheers steve

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Homebrew Heaven http://www.homebrewheaven.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i have never tried making wine, where is the best place  to start, e.g good websites to try cheers steve

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A great place to start  . . . and i can say that it is awesome is grapestompers.com  tell Tom that Bill C. sent you! Happy wine making

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i have never tried making wine, where is the best place  to start, e.g good websites to try cheers steve

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You have hit the right site Go to Jack Kellars site for an awful lot ot information –at http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/ It might be a bit overpowering for a rank beginniner cos there is a lot of very sound information  so buy  Terry Garey’s "Home Wine Making" which is a good read, with good basic advice, good recipes and lots of basic information which is aimed directly at the American market — it is a very good "read in bed book" with a not too light hearted treatise of winemaking! Try it — Trevor A Panther In South Yorkshire, England This message has been checked for all known viruses. Any views expressed are solely those of the author and do not represent those of any associated organisation.

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Question:

Successful Wine Making At Home How To Make Your Own Wines And Liqueurs H. E. Bravery Contains over 100 recipes for top-quality, trouble-free wines collected by one of Europe’s most renowned home wine-making authorities. In simple step-by-step instructions, this book explains the tools you will need and the best way to ferment, sterilize, bottle, and store, right in your own home, interesting wines. Included are fresh fruit wines, such as blackberry, cherry, damson, raspberry and gooseberry, wines made from the root of the potato, beet, and parsnip, wines made from extracts and wines from citrus fruits. Recipes for sparkling flower wines using clover, rose petals, hawthornes, and others are given as well as dried fruit and grain wines and the traditional grape wines. There is an extra section for liqueurs and Party Specials. Gramercy Publishing, New York, 1961, third printing, 151 pages, 5 1/2" x 8", red cloth with black lettering, dust jacket. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1515968656 Auction closes 2/24/02.

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Excellent book.  Try the carrot whisky. Bob C.

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Question:

I have a cab from concentrate currently clearing (and an alliteration problem). I’m still undecided as to whether I’ll rack one more time or not.  I want to add oak chips, but I have a couple of questions.  1) Is there a "best" time to add the oak chips?  Should I wait until I’m just about to bottle?  Should I do this before or after I add finings?  Should I add them and then rack? 2)  How long do I keep the oak chips in the must.  I’ve heard horror stories about over-oaking the wine, but I want to be able to detect a change. John

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I have always added oak before fining.  I’m not sure that this is best, but it seems logical that if the wood somehow adds anything to the wine which might affect its clarity then fining afterwards would take care of the problem.  OH YEAH, you can definitely over-oak a wine.  I have a Shiraz (from a mixture of frozen crushed grapes and concentrate) which I now use only as an additive for other reds which need some oak since the oak is so overwhelming.  The rule-of-thumb I was following was "If you smell oak it is time to rack"  but my revised rule is "If you smell, taste or even think you smell or taste oak, it is time to rack".  I wish there was a good way to say how long to leave your wine on oak chips but the size of the chip makes a big difference as to how much surface area is exposed to the wine and therefore how long it needs contact.

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Most of the guys in the local club use a formula like: 1 cup of chips per 5 gallons for 1 month.  Variations include 1/2 cup for 3 months, ‘tea bag’ hangers (w/glass marbles in the bottom) and the like.  Some of the tannins from the oak will aid in clarifing.  You may also get sawdust, so add before final bottling prep! dave

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Most of the guys in the local club use a formula like: 1 cup of chips per 5 gallons for 1 month.  Variations include 1/2 cup for 3 months, ‘tea bag’ hangers (w/glass marbles in the bottom) and the like.  Some of the tannins from the oak will aid in clarifing.  You may also get sawdust, so add before final bottling prep! dave

When I asked for some Oak chips from my local wine supply store, they happily gave me some and included a cotton bag in which to suspend them. However I forgot to ask them when they are added during a 28 day kit?  At first I just assumed to use them during a week in the secondary fermentation but then it occurred to me that I cannot put the bag in the carboy – how would I get it out again?  I could just rack off of the chips but I’m afraid of dust, etc and the bag seemed like a good idea.  Is it normally put in with the primary ferment?  I won’t have a chance to go back to the wine store until it is too late for this batch (in it’s 2nd week).  Thanks for the help.  |/  Wayne A. Powell            AeroWood HyperMedia Publishing  /|      

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -When I asked for some Oak chips from my local wine supply store, they happily   gave me some and included a cotton bag in which to suspend them. However I forgot to ask them when they are added during a 28 day kit?  At first I just   assumed to use them during a week in the secondary fermentation but then it   occurred to me that I cannot put the bag in the carboy – how would I get it out   again?  I could just rack off of the chips but I’m afraid of dust, etc and the   bag seemed like a good idea.  Is it normally put in with the primary ferment?   I won’t have a chance to go back to the wine store until it is too late for   this batch (in it’s 2nd week).  Thanks for the help. |/  Wayne A. Powell            AeroWood HyperMedia Publishing  wAp!  

Well, you could tie some thread to the bag, you might need something else in the bag to make it sink, like a marble. I added my oak chips after racking it out of the primary. Didn’t use a bag, just poured it in, then racked again in two weeks, on the advice of the local Wine Art dealer. It was a Chardonnay btw. I also wait 6 months before bottling, and then try to let it sit for another 3 before digging in. Good luck.       — Derek Lloyd    amateur.astronomer.photographer "Understanding….is a three edged sword" Kosh

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I have found that if you add the oak during the primary ferment, that it mellows the wine.  I also have added it again during the secondary to half of my batch (so as not to over oak it) to increase the effects.

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I also would like to know at what stage one puts oak chips in the wine.   Are there any specific types of wines that are best to put oak chips in.

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The only white I add oak to is Chardonnay.  All my reds get oak.  I begin adding oak during my primary ferment and depending on how much I desire, I may keep oak in until I do my final rack before bottling.

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I have found that either oak sawdust or shavings from a hand plane work quite well in my reds.  Small boards or scraps are easy to come by from your local lumber yard.  Just make sure that your tools are oil free before cutting. Doug Dungavell

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No argument about the sawdust, but disagree about the chips.  I bought some white oak at a lumber store [made sure it had not been treated with anything]; paid about $5.00 a year ago and am still using it. Hear many opinions, but here is what works for me … I have a jack knife that I use to whittle off a few small thin shavings.  I use a good handfull for a 23 litre carboy. I decant some of the newly stabilized wine [stabilizing and oaking are a single process for me], into a 750 cc bottle into which I have allready placed the chips/shavings.  During the next few days while finishing off [the stabilizing process, not the drinking!], the oak is permeating the 750 cc bottle.  Prior to filtering I decant the oak mixture and start adding back to carboy. Sometimes I use the whole bottle; sometimes only 500 cc’s.  This is a matter of trial and taste. Harry Demidavicius – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -A  better way to add oak flavor is with oak sawdust available from many wine making supply stores. My experience is that it takes many months to get an oak flavor from chips, but only a few weeks from sawdust. Add approximately 35 grams per 5 gallons for 2-3 weeks. The sawdust comes sterilized and in a variety of toasting levels.

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This is probably a nusiance query as it likely is often the subject of posts…however,  I want to oak some zinfandel using chips.  Any suggections on how much, how long and toast or not?  Hints on sanitizing the chips?

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Great idea. Make sure the oak is NOT red oak. Shave the oak stick and place on a baking sheet in the oven set at broil. Watch it carefully, with the oven door open and the light on. you decide on how much toast you want but for me a nice light brown is great. Add a handfull per gallon to your carboy and taste the result after a week. If you like it, rack off, if not, leave chips in until they sink to bottom and taste again. If more oak is needed, repeat. The heat will sanitize the chips. Paul – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is probably a nusiance query as it likely is often the subject of posts…however,  I want to oak some zinfandel using chips.  Any suggections on how much, how long and toast or not?  Hints on sanitizing the chips?

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I just got some 1 oz. packages of french oak chips which I plan to use in a red  zinfadel.  I was told that the packaging is oxygen barrier plastic.  My question  is – do I need to sanitize the chips?  Do the vendors of packaged

oak chips do anything to clean them?  Also will one oz. for one week give a light oak flavor to 10 gallons of wine? Greg

Here is a second opinion Greg.  One ounce of oak in 10 gallons of wine will not  produce much oak character in 12 months.  I would add 5 or 6 ounces of loose oak chips directly to your 10 gallons of wine.  I don’t clean chips in any way.  After a short time the chips will sink to the bottom of your containers.  Start tasting the wine after a few weeks, and rack the wine off the chips when you like the taste of the wine. Good luck, lum

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| | I just got some 1 oz. packages of french oak chips which I plan to use in a | red  zinfadel.  I was told that the packaging is oxygen barrier plastic.  My | question  is – do I need to sanitize the chips?  Do the vendors of packaged | oak chips do anything to clean them?  Also will one oz. for one week give a | light oak | flavor to 10 gallons of wine? | | Greg | | Here is a second opinion Greg.  One ounce of oak in 10 gallons of wine will | not  produce much oak character in 12 months.  I would add 5 or 6 ounces of | loose oak chips directly to your 10 gallons of wine.  I don’t clean chips in | any way.  After a short time the chips will sink to the bottom of your | containers.  Start tasting the wine after a few weeks, and rack the wine off | the chips when you like the taste of the wine. | Good luck, | lum | | | | I was planning on one ounce for a week because the UC Davis website’s home wine making manual says to add one ounce for a week.  Maybe I’ll try 2 ounces for 3 weeks instead. Greg

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Greg: I’m a believer in the philosophy "moderation is all things." Make a tea by boiling the chips in a liter of water, let it cool and just before last racking, begin adding a lttle at a time until you have the taste you’re looking for. You can ALWAYS add more, but you can’t ever take any back! ~Stephen

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just got some 1 oz. packages of french oak chips which I plan to use in a red zinfadel.  I was told that the packaging is oxygen barrier plastic.  My question is – do I need to sanitize the chips?  Do the vendors of packaged oak chips do anything to clean them?  Also will one oz. for one week give a light oak flavor to 10 gallons of wine? Greg

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I just got some 1 oz. packages of french oak chips which I plan to use in a red zinfadel.  I was told that the packaging is oxygen barrier plastic.  My question is – do I need to sanitize the chips?  Do the vendors of packaged oak chips do anything to clean them?  Also will one oz. for one week give a light oak flavor to 10 gallons of wine? Greg

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I am getting ready to bulk age my first batch of wine, a 23L Zinfandel kit, and want to add some oak chips for the flavor.  I know it depends a lot upon an individual’s taste, but I wondered if anyone had some guidelines they might share.  Thank you very much!

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For 23l, I’ve used about 4 to 6 heaping tablespoons of oak chips. I’d soak them in SO2 solution for 10 miuntes then add to wine in carboy for aging. Typically, you will need to keep the chips in the wine for at least 3 months to pick up ample oak and tannin flavor. I’ve gone as long as 12 months and still enjoyed the level of oak. For reds, use American. For whites, use French. (general rule of thumb) Mark – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am getting ready to bulk age my first batch of wine, a 23L Zinfandel kit, and want to add some oak chips for the flavor.  I know it depends a lot upon an individual’s taste, but I wondered if anyone had some guidelines they might share.  Thank you very much!

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I am getting ready to bulk age my first batch of wine, a 23L Zinfandel kit, and want to add some oak chips for the flavor.  I know it depends a lot upon an individual’s taste, but I wondered if anyone had some guidelines they might share.  Thank you very much!

Hi Bryan: Here are some general tips on using chips: ADDING OAK CHIPS: Oaking levels vary a great deal based upon personal preference. To determine the oaking characters you find appealing, you will need to experiment with respect to: -Type of oak used (granular, chips or cubes) -Time introduced (at the beginning, sometime in the middle, when bulk aging, or some combination of the three) -Usage Concentration (most recommended dosages are in the range of 0.25 – .70 oz/USGal [1.8 - 5.2 g/L]) -Duration of exposure (anywhere from 2 weeks to 1+ year [generally, the higher the concentration, the lower the required exposure time]) I can tell you though, that, based on extensive experimentation & personal oaking preferences, here is what I have successfully used with medium & full-bodied reds: 1.  During fermentation: "Oak-Mor" American white Oak Powder, used untreated (right out of the bag) at about 1.7 grams per liter.  After the fermentation simply rack the wine as usual. 2.  After the wine is finished (after fining, cold stabilization & bulk aging): Medium toast, French Allier white oak chips (from "World Cooperage"), used after being "heat sanitized" for 30 minutes in an oven at 250F, at a rate of 0.67 oz per USGal (5.0 g/L) with a contact time of 30 – 35 days. Rack off of the chips, adjust free SO2 levels & bulk age for an additional 30+ days. I do not do any additional fining after the oaking & I do not filter. I love the added, deep color from the chips. This process will give you significant vanilla, cedar & tobacco oak descriptors. Finally; this vintage,  I am experimenting with a new oaking process on all of my reds (California Rhone blend, California Petit Sirah & Estate Baco Noir).  Specifically; I am using StaVin (http://www.stavin.com/homewinemaker.htm) , medium toast French oak cubes introduced into the primary fermenter & retained in the wine throughout the entire process (the cubes are rinsed, sanitized [with my

Question:

I do stress that these are only my own opinions and I have no connection with any wine kit manufacturer at all!

Trevor, I’d be interested in your opinion as to which red kits you have found to be good. I found your last post very informative and if you cared to type in another long post, I and no doubt others would not think you’ve wasted your virtual ink. Don

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Has anyone had any experience with wine kits from Vinters Reserve ?

I "cut " my home wine-making teeth with VR Kits.  As a lover of reds, I was VERY disappointed with how they turned out. I followed the directions to the T. I did a CAB, Shiraz, and a Merlot.  As Trevor describes his reds (very thin and barely drinkable), I too find it an accurate description.  However, I did a VR Gew

Question:

The point here is that while the wine is in the primary fermentation, there is enough CO2 being created by the yeast to keep the oxygen off of the must

<snip Thanks for the reply, I understand. But what I don’t get is where recipes tell you to store in a demi-john (carboy) for six months and then bottle. Won’t the wine go bad from being exposed to oxygen in the bottling process? — mvn

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The point here is that while the wine is in the primary fermentation, there is enough CO2 being created by the yeast to keep the oxygen off of the must <snip Thanks for the reply, I understand. But what I don’t get is where recipes tell you to store in a demi-john (carboy) for six months and then bottle. Won’t the wine go bad from being exposed to oxygen in the bottling process?

You go to some lengths to keep from picking up too much oxygen in bottling. Sulfites help with wine. I do a lot of homebrew, and oxygen at bottling is the worst enemy there is to the shelf life of a beer. — Fred Stone change g.com to k.net to e-mail me.

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You go to some lengths to keep from picking up too much oxygen in bottling. Sulfites help with wine

So do I add another campden tablet before bottling, once the wine has cleared? If so how long before bottling do I add it? TIA — mvn

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You go to some lengths to keep from picking up too much oxygen in bottling. Sulfites help with wine So do I add another campden tablet before bottling, once the wine has cleared?

You need a test kit. There’s a certain range of concentration that you want. If so how long before bottling do I add it?

You test the sulfite level, and if you need to add any, do it right when you bottle. I think 50ppm is probably safe for most cases. Some more technical person will correct me, I’m sure. — Fred Stone change g.com to k.net to e-mail me.

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<< You never leave the fermenters open to the air, and keep them topped-up so as to minimize the air that is available to oxidize your wine.

The point here is that while the wine is in the primary fermentation, there is enough CO2 being created by the yeast to keep the oxygen off of the must.  This is called a ‘blanket’ of CO2 – but it doesn’t last all that long.  By the time your primary is down to about 1.2, the CO2 level is dropping like a sheep off a cliff, and that’s why you need to rack/transfer to a carboy with very little air space on the top of the wine.  Oxidation means there is simple ol’ air touching the wine – the oxygen will ‘oxidize’ the wine, turning it bad.  By your secondary fermentation, oxygen in large amounts is your enemy.  In tiny, tiny, tiny amounts, it is your friend – it helps the wine mature – hence barrel ageing. BUT, if your secondary finishes in a carboy, as soon as it’s done, TOP UP THE CARBOY so there is only a tad of space between the wine and the airlock.  No space = no oxygen touching your wine = no ‘oxidation’ in gross amounts. hth, Caris www.lightcatcher.com "It’s a drum and arms waving. It’s a bonfire at midnight on the top edge of a hill, this meeting here with you."                                                                         Rumi

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Okay I’ve been doing some reading in preparation for making my first batch and understand most of it. However, this may sound like a stupid question, but I’m not averse to asking stupid questions. When you open a bottle of (shop bought) wine it will only keep for a few days. I presume that the air getting to it, or more importantly microbes in the air, is what makes it go bad. Now, in this home wine making process you have to pour the wine from the mash, into demi-johns, you then later in the process transfer the wine to another demi-john (racking?). Finally you transfer it into wine bottles. I even get the impression that some people regularly taste their wine to see how its doing! At all these stages the wine is exposed to contaminated air, so how come it doesn’t go off? I don’t understand ( — mvn

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Okay I’ve been doing some reading in preparation for making my first batch and understand most of it. However, this may sound like a stupid question, but I’m not averse to asking stupid questions.

No such thing as a stupid question blah blah blah…      ;-) When you open a bottle of (shop bought) wine it will only keep for a few days. I presume that the air getting to it, or more importantly microbes in the air, is what makes it go bad. Now, in this home wine making process you have to pour the wine from the mash, into demi-johns, you then later in the process transfer the wine to another demi-john (racking?). Finally you transfer it into wine bottles.

The live yeast will help to eat up any oxygen, which is the real culprit. Sulfites also protect against oxidation and bugs, to a point. In racking, you want to do it quietly, without splashing, so that you pick up as little air as possible. Plus, the CO2 from freshly fermenting wine will protect a little. I even get the impression that some people regularly taste their wine to see how its doing! At all these stages the wine is exposed to contaminated air, so how come it doesn’t go off?

You never leave the fermenters open to the air, and keep them topped-up so as to minimize the air that is available to oxidize your wine. I don’t understand (

Don’t feel bad. It’s magic.      ;-) You’ll be surprised. Less things will go wrong than you think. — Fred Stone change g.com to k.net to e-mail me.

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When you open a bottle of (shop bought) wine it will only keep for a few days. I presume that the air getting to it, or more importantly microbes in the air, is what makes it go bad.

Actually it’s contact with oxygen. Now, in this home wine making process you have to pour the wine from the mash, into demi-johns, you then later in the process transfer the wine to another demi-john (racking?). Finally you transfer it into wine bottles. I even get the impression that some people regularly taste their wine to see how its doing! At all these stages the wine is exposed to contaminated air, so how come it doesn’t go off?

Because the wine is supersaturated with carbon dioxide.  The yeast needs oxygen to produce alchol, that’s why you pour and splash the grape juice.  After fermentation you generally try to avoid contact with oxygen, though the carbon dioxide the fizzes out of the young wine provides a blanket of protection as do air locks and glass carboys. If your environment is filled with nasty air (such as paint or solvent fumes) then yes your wine will be ruined.  However, if you don’t stand around with the top off and ledt oxygen, vinegar bacteria, etc fall in you’ll be okay. -Jason — Graduate Motto: Free-time with guilt. http://www.cs.ubc.ca/~harrison http://www.cs.ubc.ca/~harrison/dance

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You never leave the fermenters open to the air, and keep them topped-up so as to minimize the air that is available to oxidize your wine.

Thanks for the reply. But I’m not quite sure what you mean by this bit! I really am a newbie. — mvn

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You never leave the fermenters open to the air, and keep them topped-up so as to minimize the air that is available to oxidize your wine. Thanks for the reply. But I’m not quite sure what you mean by this bit! I really am a newbie.

Not the primary, you need headspace there for all the foam, but when you rack to secondary, make sure that it is full to the top. Add a little boiled water if you have to. Some folks add sugar syrup, but that will restart fermenting. The idea is to leave as little airspace as possible in the carboy. — Fred Stone change g.com to k.net to e-mail me.

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Question:

Hi Drew, It would be cool if the wine program was part of Strangebrew.  I make beer, wine, and mead.  It would be handy if it were possible to switch back and forth between recipes as I like to rack wine while bottling beer, etc.  An all in one program might have a wide appeal. Allan Dobler

I second that motion!

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Hi Drew, It would be cool if the wine program was part of Strangebrew.  I make beer, wine, and mead.  It would be handy if it were possible to switch back and forth between recipes as I like to rack wine while bottling beer, etc.  An all in one program might have a wide appeal. Allan Dobler

I’ve been using ProMash for a couple of years and am quite happy with it but, I would be willing to pay for a good wine program. Ross.

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Thanks Drew, I realize the amount of work involved to incorporate the two packages into one GUI.  But you have to admit, that would be one sweet piece of software. Allan Dobler – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Allan!  I was thinking about this, but there are just so many things that differ between making beer and making wine/mead/cider etc.  Some of the code is the same (%abv, hydrometer corrections, etc), but a lot of it just doesn’t apply (water treatment, IBUs, colour, etc). SB sorta handles mead, but I’m thinking there are many features, like handling SO2 adjustments, pH adjustments, sugar feeding, etc, that are unique to winemaking. That being said, once developed, I may find a way to merge the two GUIs so that a single GUI points to two different databases & offers the all-in-one functionality. Regards, Drew Hi Drew, It would be cool if the wine program was part of Strangebrew.  I make beer, wine, and mead.  It would be handy if it were possible to switch back and forth between recipes as I like to rack wine while bottling beer, etc.  An all in one program might have a wide appeal. Allan Dobler

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Hi Allan!  I was thinking about this, but there are just so many things that differ between making beer and making wine/mead/cider etc.  Some of the code is the same (%abv, hydrometer corrections, etc), but a lot of it just doesn’t apply (water treatment, IBUs, colour, etc). SB sorta handles mead, but I’m thinking there are many features, like handling SO2 adjustments, pH adjustments, sugar feeding, etc, that are unique to winemaking. That being said, once developed, I may find a way to merge the two GUIs so that a single GUI points to two different databases & offers the all-in-one functionality. Regards, Drew – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Drew, It would be cool if the wine program was part of Strangebrew.  I make beer, wine, and mead.  It would be handy if it were possible to switch back and forth between recipes as I like to rack wine while bottling beer, etc.  An all in one program might have a wide appeal. Allan Dobler

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Hi Drew, It would be cool if the wine program was part of Strangebrew.  I make beer, wine, and mead.  It would be handy if it were possible to switch back and forth between recipes as I like to rack wine while bottling beer, etc.  An all in one program might have a wide appeal. Allan Dobler – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all, I’m working on a home wine making application, and thought I’d poll the group regarding features you’d like to see.  I’ve written a homebrewing recipe database application (http://www.strangebrew.ca) and I’m going to adapt it for wine, cider, and mead.  The general framework I’m thinking of is: – a database of general recipes, including ingredients and recipe comments. – from the recipes you can make batches.  The batch includes dates (made, racking, adjustments), measurements, volume, & log notes. – from the batches you make bottles.  The cellar database will track groups of bottles (either homemade or bought), with an inventory tracking, tasting notes, and tasting graphs. Any thoughts, opinions, feedback, etc greatly appreciated. Drew

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What is it the BATF says?  The first 100 lines of code can be given away as freeware but if you go over 200 lines then the software has to authenticate after each racking… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was planning to distribute it as shareware, where it would run with all features for 30 days, and then run in Lite mode with fewer features until it was registered.  This way people who wanted free software would get something useful, and those who are willing to pay a small registration fee would get some added value.  This is how I`m distributing my homebrewing software and it seems to work well.

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I was planning to distribute it as shareware, where it would run with all features for 30 days, and then run in Lite mode with fewer features until it was registered.  This way people who wanted free software would get something useful, and those who are willing to pay a small registration fee would get some added value.  This is how I`m distributing my homebrewing software and it seems to work well. Drew – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …And make it free. loads of people on this list spend a lot of time giving advice to others. when I write code that i think will be beneficial to others in this group, I give it to them. my way of giving back (the sarcastic posts are a bonus) Regards, Dennis Good idea.  I’ll add it to the feature list. Drew How about a calendar/reminder option for those of us who forget certain dates (eg. Racking, fining, testing …)?

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…And make it free. loads of people on this list spend a lot of time giving advice to others. when I write code that i think will be beneficial to others in this group, I give it to them. my way of giving back (the sarcastic posts are a bonus) Regards, Dennis Good idea.  I’ll add it to the feature list. Drew How about a calendar/reminder option for those of us who forget certain dates (eg. Racking, fining, testing …)?

– http://www.cellarsite.com I really hate spam. To contact me, email me at my last name at cellarsite.com

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Good idea.  I’ll add it to the feature list. Drew – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How about a calendar/reminder option for those of us who forget certain dates (eg. Racking, fining, testing …)?

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How about a calendar/reminder option for those of us who forget certain dates (eg. Racking, fining, testing …)?

Hehe, I rack when I find the time, not when I’m "supposed to"!  My wines seem to be better for sitting 3 or 4 months longer than I wanted them to. —-Greg http://www.ndsu.nodak.edu/instruct/grcook/wine/

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I use Microsoft Outlook (Calendar) for the reminders. I works perfectly and is very easy to use. — "I’m not afraid to die, I’m not afraid to live, And when I’m flat on my back I hope to feel like I did." -U2 (Bono)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How about a calendar/reminder option for those of us who forget certain dates (eg. Racking, fining, testing …)? Hello all, I’m working on a home wine making application, and thought I’d poll the group regarding features you’d like to see.  I’ve written a homebrewing recipe database application (http://www.strangebrew.ca) and I’m going to adapt it for wine, cider, and mead.  The general framework I’m thinking of is: – a database of general recipes, including ingredients and recipe comments. – from the recipes you can make batches.  The batch includes dates (made, racking, adjustments), measurements, volume, & log notes. – from the batches you make bottles.  The cellar database will track groups of bottles (either homemade or bought), with an inventory tracking, tasting notes, and tasting graphs. Any thoughts, opinions, feedback, etc greatly appreciated. Drew

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How about a calendar/reminder option for those of us who forget certain dates (eg. Racking, fining, testing …)? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hello all, I’m working on a home wine making application, and thought I’d poll the group regarding features you’d like to see.  I’ve written a homebrewing recipe database application (http://www.strangebrew.ca) and I’m going to adapt it for wine, cider, and mead.  The general framework I’m thinking of is: – a database of general recipes, including ingredients and recipe comments. – from the recipes you can make batches.  The batch includes dates (made, racking, adjustments), measurements, volume, & log notes. – from the batches you make bottles.  The cellar database will track groups of bottles (either homemade or bought), with an inventory tracking, tasting notes, and tasting graphs. Any thoughts, opinions, feedback, etc greatly appreciated. Drew

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Hello all, I’m working on a home wine making application, and thought I’d poll the group regarding features you’d like to see.  I’ve written a homebrewing recipe database application (http://www.strangebrew.ca) and I’m going to adapt it for wine, cider, and mead.  The general framework I’m thinking of is: – a database of general recipes, including ingredients and recipe comments. – from the recipes you can make batches.  The batch includes dates (made, racking, adjustments), measurements, volume, & log notes. – from the batches you make bottles.  The cellar database will track groups of bottles (either homemade or bought), with an inventory tracking, tasting notes, and tasting graphs. Any thoughts, opinions, feedback, etc greatly appreciated. Drew

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