Question:
Even at $80, you’re only paying $4/bottle. Well worth it in my mind. Someday, I’ll try a side by side of each price level.
Wine cost $2.67/bottle…. (30 750-ml bottles per 6 gallon kit) Corks $0.15/bottle Capsules $0.06/bottle Total $2.88 Even if you are buying the bottles, $0.83/bottle, the total is still less than $4…. I have bottled wine in beer bottles with a crown cap without any problems. I just filled it to the very top and capped. I did drink those bottles first after the aging process…. Cheers, Mike
Response:
Sorry to butt in on the conversation .. thinking about trying winemaking too. Noticed that the kits, specifically the Selection and Vintners Reserve seem to differ quite a bit in price (about $50 with Vintners vs. $80 with Selection). Is there a significant difference in the two lines? One better than the other in certain respects?
I usually pay for the more expensive kits. I have no experience with the cheaper ones, but a winemaking buddy said he thought they all made good wine, he just though the more pricey ones he had made were better wine. That was good enough for me… Cheers, Mike
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Basically, you add water and yeast and an occasional specialty ingrediant and wait a month until it’s ready to bottle. Start with a white wine so that you can taste the results sooner. You may be able to drink them sooner, but they are more difficult to make. If you can’t cold ferment (no warmer than 60F, and cooler is better), then I would recommend sticking with reds.
I have to shamefully admit I have never worried about the wine fermenting temps on the kits I have done… Cheers, Mike
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— I usually pay for the more expensive kits. I have no experience with the cheaper ones, but a winemaking buddy said he thought they all made good wine, he just though the more pricey ones he had made were better wine. That was good enough for me…
There is a wine club made up largely of geezers that meets here in my store. They do what is called their "concentrate project" every year. They typically used canned concentrates to make fun of concentrates. I talked them into trying Brew Kings products. They choose the Gewertz. They were curious about whether or not there was much difference between the Reserve and Selection line so they decided to do both. About half choose the Reserve and the other half made the Selection. A year later they did a blind judging. The batches split dead evenly with the same number of Reserve and Selection in both the top half of the scoring and the bottom half. The pompous member who "doesn’t do concentrates anymore" said that he wished he had done this one. Another guy walked up to me and said that this was the first meeting in a long time where all the wine was good. One of the Selections, which was sparkled, took BOS at the Ohio State Fair. Dan Listermann Check out our E-tail site at www.listermann.com Free shipping for orders greater than $35 and East of the Mighty Miss. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sorry to butt in on the conversation .. thinking about trying winemaking too. Noticed that the kits, specifically the Selection and Vintners Reserve seem to differ quite a bit in price (about $50 with Vintners vs. $80 with Selection). Is there a significant difference in the two lines? One better than the other in certain respects? Cheers, Mike
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I jumped straight into brewing with all-grain, so I figured if I’m going to do wine, it’ll be all-grape 
I’ve never sat down and calculated how many grapes to buy so I have no clue how to look at it from a price point of view. I’m still a kitster. Burp, -Dan
– Todd Enlund "Bandits at 3 O’Clock" "Roger. What should I do ’till then?"
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I jumped straight into brewing with all-grain, so I figured if I’m going to do wine, it’ll be all-grape
I know people that buy juice (must?) from the vineyard. That seems like a huge challenge to me. In the wine world, I am a kit boy…;) Cheers, Mike
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I know people that buy juice (must?) from the vineyard. That seems like a huge challenge to me. In the wine world, I am a kit boy…;)
The assumption with fresh fruit or juice is that it must be better than concentrate. It is like the assumption that all-grain must be better than extract. In truth the concentrate, especially the Canadian ones, are professionally acid and sugar balanced to make a commercial grade wine. Few rank amateurs have the skills or equipment to produce wine at these levels. Now for entertainment value, raw grapes are hard to beat. A little Italian music, a tub and throw your shoes off and stomp away. This is what Campton tablets are for. — Dan Listermann Check out our E-tail site at www.listermann.com Free shipping for orders greater than $35 and East of the Mighty Miss. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cheers, Mike
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You don’t say if your scale is from 1-10 or what but if it is I would give kit winemaking about a 2 compared to extract brewing at 4 but I would have to agree with bregent that making great wine from grapes is probably at least as difficult as making great all-grain beer and definitely takes more time overall – but its spread out over many weeks, if not months. As far as equipment, you will have just about everything except bottles for kit wines (which are surprisingly good if you buy the higher end ones. To make wine from grapes you maybe can find someone else with a crusher and press or go in with others to purchase these items. Miker – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m considering winemaking, since SWMBO is not very interested in beer (more for me!). Of course, I wouldn’t even consider to stop brewing. I’ve been brewing for 14 years, have done extract, partial mash, and all grain. If I were to rate extract brewing at a ‘4′ level of difficulty, and all grain at an 8 or so, where would winemaking fall on this scale? How much time does winemaking take? Is there any additional equipment (over and above my brewing equipment) that I would need? Can someone recommend a good winemaking book? Are there many brewers out there who also make wine? Thanks Jim
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Unless you like the flavour notes provided by wild feet yeasts? Athletes foot chardonnay! Those non concentrated kits (i think, 23L) in the bucket, where you just have to add yeast, make very good wine. Expensive but i think worthwhile. A buddy of mine just got one, around 100$ Canadian. john – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The assumption with fresh fruit or juice is that it must be better than concentrate. It is like the assumption that all-grain must be better than extract. In truth the concentrate, especially the Canadian ones, are professionally acid and sugar balanced to make a commercial grade wine. Few rank amateurs have the skills or equipment to produce wine at these levels. Now for entertainment value, raw grapes are hard to beat. A little Italian music, a tub and throw your shoes off and stomp away. This is what Campton tablets are for. — Dan Listermann Check out our E-tail site at www.listermann.com Free shipping for orders greater than $35 and East of the Mighty Miss. Cheers, Mike
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Those non concentrated kits (i think, 23L) in the bucket, where you just have to add yeast, make very good wine. Expensive but i think worthwhile. A buddy of mine just got one, around 100$ Canadian.
For the concentrate project I described earlier, I made a Mosti Gewertz 23L kit. It placed 11th out of 15 with the concentrates splitting evenly. I am not saying that it was bad, but it was not noticeably better. — Dan Listermann Check out our E-tail site at www.listermann.com Free shipping for orders greater than $35 and East of the Mighty Miss. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – john The assumption with fresh fruit or juice is that it must be better than concentrate. It is like the assumption that all-grain must be better than extract. In truth the concentrate, especially the Canadian ones, are professionally acid and sugar balanced to make a commercial grade wine. Few rank amateurs have the skills or equipment to produce wine at these levels. Now for entertainment value, raw grapes are hard to beat. A little Italian music, a tub and throw your shoes off and stomp away. This is what Campton tablets are for. — Dan Listermann Check out our E-tail site at www.listermann.com Free shipping for orders greater than $35 and East of the Mighty Miss. Cheers, Mike
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: I have bottled wine in beer bottles with a crown cap without any problems. : I just filled it to the very top and capped. I did drink those bottles : first after the aging process…. Actually Mike, those bottles will most likely be better preserved than corked wine bottles. I was reading that some very established Australian wineries are going exclusively to capping – and these are not producers of plonk, either. Apparently the losses due to corking can be considerable, while capping gives a very secure seal. — Bill
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The assumption with fresh fruit or juice is that it must be better than concentrate. It is like the assumption that all-grain must be better than extract. In truth the concentrate, especially the Canadian ones, are professionally acid and sugar balanced to make a commercial grade wine. Few rank amateurs have the skills or equipment to produce wine at these levels.
If your goal is only to save money – then, fine. But…. where’s the "art"? Dan Shultz says "Basically, you add water and yeast and an occasional specialty ingrediant and wait a month until it’s ready to bottle". We all have to travel our own road but, to me, this sounds beer kits. Tony V. http://home.attbi.com/~verhulst/RIMS/rims.htm
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: The assumption with fresh fruit or juice is that it must be better than : concentrate. It is like the assumption that all-grain must be better than : extract. Right on, Dan. I was thinking the exact same thing, and it’s a good analogy. There are plenty of concentrate kits that produce good wine. Not all of them (and I’ve had some that were sub-par) but many that produce very nice wines. Many that do well in competition, too. But snobbery is the glue that holds the wine community together, and kits are routinely ridiculed, often by people who have not tried any of the decent one’s recently. I remember one evening my wife and I went to another couple’s for dinner. This couple are wine enthusiasts, and we have gone on ‘wine vacations’ with them in the past. Anyway, I brought a bottle of chardonnay that I had made from a kit. I was a bit nervous when they produced an Australian Chardonnay, thinking that it might make my wine taste like crap in comparision. We poured them both, and surprisingly, the kit wine wasn’t crappy at all: in fact, it was so good that there was a 50-50 split on which wine was better, but for all of us it was a really close call. They were both good. And that’s good enough for me! Bill
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The price of the kit is a combination of several things. Perhaps the single biggest contribution to the final price is the level of concentration of the juice. Some are very concentrated while others offer un-concentrated juices. Generally the concentrated juices are cheaper as they are smaller in size, weigh less, and are cheaper to ship. There will also be some variety in price depending on the varietals and vineyard. Grapes are seasonal and their cost to the kit producers varies with availability. Blends are often cheaper than single varieties. Also the nation of origin plays a part. The quality has been good on all the kits I’ve sampled. I haven’t come to a conclusion if one kit was significantly better than another. There is a certain amount of convenience in the non-concentrated juices. Some in the house say there was a better, more pronounced fruity aroma in them as well but I didn’t really notice a significant difference.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sorry to butt in on the conversation .. thinking about trying winemaking too. Noticed that the kits, specifically the Selection and Vintners Reserve seem to differ quite a bit in price (about $50 with Vintners vs. $80 with Selection). Is there a significant difference in the two lines? One better than the other in certain respects?
Response:
I’m considering winemaking, since SWMBO is not very interested in beer (more for me!). Of course, I wouldn’t even consider to stop brewing. I’ve been brewing for 14 years, have done extract, partial mash, and all grain. If I were to rate extract brewing at a ‘4′ level of difficulty, and all grain at an 8 or so, where would winemaking fall on this scale?
With a kit, about a 1. From grapes, I don’t even want to think about it…. Assuming a kit… How much time does winemaking take?
15 min max from opening the kit to closing the fermenter. Then rack many times, and bottle ~1/2 hour… Is there any additional equipment (over and above my brewing equipment) that I would need?
Carboys. I use a large plastic fermenter from primary and then you need at least two carboys to rack back and forth… Can someone recommend a good winemaking book?
If you are doing a kit, you won’t even need one… Are there many brewers out there who also make wine?
Yes. One final note, buy the best kits you can. Not that the small ones make bad wine, but the big ones make excellent wine…. Cheers, Mike
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I’ve never sat down and calculated how many grapes to buy so I have no clue how to look at it from a price point of view. I’m still a kitster. Burp, -Dan — Replace "nospam" with msn to send me email.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is there any economy of scale to be realized? I’ve thought about going to the vineyards after looking at the listings at Steinbart’s. I was wondering if a group of folks got together, would there be any savings… Wine making from kits is very easy. No cooking to do, no priming for carbonation and sanitation is less worrisome. I have only brewed two kits, both Selection wine kits. I just bought another today, a Pinot Gregio and put my name on the list for some exclusive ones coming out in January. Yes, my wife prefers the wines also. Basically, you add water and yeast and an occasional specialty ingrediant and wait a month until it’s ready to bottle. Start with a white wine so that you can taste the results sooner. Next Fall, I try my first hand at buying the grapes direct. There are many vineyards that sell grapes out here. Most have destemmers and crushers on site. Burp, -Dan — Todd Enlund "Bandits at 3 O’Clock" "Roger. What should I do ’till then?"
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Is there any economy of scale to be realized? I’ve thought about going to the vineyards after looking at the listings at Steinbart’s. I was wondering if a group of folks got together, would there be any savings… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Wine making from kits is very easy. No cooking to do, no priming for carbonation and sanitation is less worrisome. I have only brewed two kits, both Selection wine kits. I just bought another today, a Pinot Gregio and put my name on the list for some exclusive ones coming out in January. Yes, my wife prefers the wines also. Basically, you add water and yeast and an occasional specialty ingrediant and wait a month until it’s ready to bottle. Start with a white wine so that you can taste the results sooner. Next Fall, I try my first hand at buying the grapes direct. There are many vineyards that sell grapes out here. Most have destemmers and crushers on site. Burp, -Dan
– Todd Enlund "Bandits at 3 O’Clock" "Roger. What should I do ’till then?"
Response:
Wine making from kits is very easy. No cooking to do, no priming for carbonation and sanitation is less worrisome. I have only brewed two kits, both Selection wine kits. I just bought another today, a Pinot Gregio and put my name on the list for some exclusive ones coming out in January. Yes, my wife prefers the wines also. Basically, you add water and yeast and an occasional specialty ingrediant and wait a month until it’s ready to bottle. Start with a white wine so that you can taste the results sooner.
You may be able to drink them sooner, but they are more difficult to make. If you can’t cold ferment (no warmer than 60F, and cooler is better), then I would recommend sticking with reds.
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At Steinbarts today I asked that very same question. The answer I was given was that as you go up the price list, the closer the wine is to the true style and the more likely that the grapes came from fewer vineyards (less blending). I have only made two batches and tasted one so I can only go on what I was told. This third kit, an Italian Pinot Gregio was also from the $80 level (as were my first two). Even at $80, you’re only paying $4/bottle. Well worth it in my mind. Someday, I’ll try a side by side of each price level. The manufacturer of the Selection wines is coming out with four special varieties with one released each month from Jan through April. I had to put my name on a list as these are special order. I’m looking forward to giving those a try. Burp, -Dan — Replace "nospam" with msn to send me email.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sorry to butt in on the conversation .. thinking about trying winemaking too. Noticed that the kits, specifically the Selection and Vintners Reserve seem to differ quite a bit in price (about $50 with Vintners vs. $80 with Selection). Is there a significant difference in the two lines? One better than the other in certain respects? Wine making from kits is very easy. No cooking to do, no priming for carbonation and sanitation is less worrisome. I have only brewed two kits, both Selection wine kits. I just bought another today, a Pinot Gregio and put my name on the list for some exclusive ones coming out in January. Yes, my wife prefers the wines also. Basically, you add water and yeast and an occasional specialty ingrediant and wait a month until it’s ready to bottle. Start with a white wine so that you can taste the results sooner. Next Fall, I try my first hand at buying the grapes direct. There are many vineyards that sell grapes out here. Most have destemmers and crushers on site. Burp, -Dan — Replace nospam with msn to email me. I’m considering winemaking, since SWMBO is not very interested in beer (more for me!). Of course, I wouldn’t even consider to stop brewing. I’ve been brewing for 14 years, have done extract, partial mash, and all grain. If I were to rate extract brewing at a ‘4′ level of difficulty, and all grain at an 8 or so, where would winemaking fall on this scale? How much time does winemaking take? Is there any additional equipment (over and above my brewing equipment) that I would need? Can someone recommend a good winemaking book? Are there many brewers out there who also make wine? Thanks Jim
Response:
I’m considering winemaking, since SWMBO is not very interested in beer (more for me!). Of course, I wouldn’t even consider to stop brewing. I’ve been brewing for 14 years, have done extract, partial mash, and all grain. If I were to rate extract brewing at a ‘4′ level of difficulty, and all grain at an 8 or so, where would winemaking fall on this scale.
About 12. Whipping up a ‘batch’ of wine is easy. Making a high quality wine is not. Beermaking is all recipe formulation and process control. Once you have a good formula and good control, you can make good beer every time. Wines are different every time, because grapes vary every year. Learning how to adjust for the difference is part science and art. How much time does winemaking take?
When you factor in the time for crushing, knocking down, pressing, racking(at least 3 times), testing (ML, TA, pH, Sulphite), sulphiting, ullage, filtering, cold stabilizing, bottling, etc, etc…..it’s much more time consuming than beer. I would guess that #200 of grapes takes me at least 15 hours of processing time. Is there any additional equipment (over and above my brewing equipment) that I would need? Can someone recommend a good winemaking book? Are there many brewers out there who also make wine?
Check out rec.crafts.winemaking
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Dude, Making wine is a lot less complicated than brewing up a batch of good beer. And the level of sanitation is more forgiving…I like to knock out 5 gal batches of "Berry Wine" for the wife. (I have a 5 gallon batch of Blueberry/Black Raspberry aging in glass right now) A batch last her a long time and she doesn’t give me any grief about brewing beer…:) Have fun…:) I’m considering winemaking, since SWMBO is not very interested in beer (more for me!). Of course, I wouldn’t even consider to stop brewing. Snip
Making wine is a lot less complicated than brewing up a batch of good beer. And the level of sanitation is more forgiving…I like to knock out 5 gal batches of "Berry Wine" for the wife. A batch last her a long time and she doesn’t give me any grief about brewing beer…:)
Response:
Sorry to butt in on the conversation .. thinking about trying winemaking too. Noticed that the kits, specifically the Selection and Vintners Reserve seem to differ quite a bit in price (about $50 with Vintners vs. $80 with Selection). Is there a significant difference in the two lines? One better than the other in certain respects?
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wine making from kits is very easy. No cooking to do, no priming for carbonation and sanitation is less worrisome. I have only brewed two kits, both Selection wine kits. I just bought another today, a Pinot Gregio and put my name on the list for some exclusive ones coming out in January. Yes, my wife prefers the wines also. Basically, you add water and yeast and an occasional specialty ingrediant and wait a month until it’s ready to bottle. Start with a white wine so that you can taste the results sooner. Next Fall, I try my first hand at buying the grapes direct. There are many vineyards that sell grapes out here. Most have destemmers and crushers on site. Burp, -Dan — Replace nospam with msn to email me. I’m considering winemaking, since SWMBO is not very interested in beer (more for me!). Of course, I wouldn’t even consider to stop brewing. I’ve been brewing for 14 years, have done extract, partial mash, and all grain. If I were to rate extract brewing at a ‘4′ level of difficulty, and all grain at an 8 or so, where would winemaking fall on this scale? How much time does winemaking take? Is there any additional equipment (over and above my brewing equipment) that I would need? Can someone recommend a good winemaking book? Are there many brewers out there who also make wine? Thanks Jim
Response:
Wine making from kits is very easy. No cooking to do, no priming for carbonation and sanitation is less worrisome. I have only brewed two kits, both Selection wine kits. I just bought another today, a Pinot Gregio and put my name on the list for some exclusive ones coming out in January. Yes, my wife prefers the wines also. Basically, you add water and yeast and an occasional specialty ingrediant and wait a month until it’s ready to bottle. Start with a white wine so that you can taste the results sooner. Next Fall, I try my first hand at buying the grapes direct. There are many vineyards that sell grapes out here. Most have destemmers and crushers on site. Burp, -Dan — Replace nospam with msn to email me.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m considering winemaking, since SWMBO is not very interested in beer (more for me!). Of course, I wouldn’t even consider to stop brewing. I’ve been brewing for 14 years, have done extract, partial mash, and all grain. If I were to rate extract brewing at a ‘4′ level of difficulty, and all grain at an 8 or so, where would winemaking fall on this scale? How much time does winemaking take? Is there any additional equipment (over and above my brewing equipment) that I would need? Can someone recommend a good winemaking book? Are there many brewers out there who also make wine? Thanks Jim
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Hi fellow Tull lover and home brewer: I asked the same question a few weeks back and just started a batch of Vintners Merlot last night. It is easy as sin. I would give it a difficulty rating of 1. Actually if you want to give it a shot just get a kit which has instructions and everything you need. A batch has 6 gallons so a 7.5 gallon bucket would be a good idea (I got that for $14 with a rubber bung). If you are an allgrain brewer you could make a batch of wine while you mas your grains! Ofcourse you will need 30 plus wine bottles, a quality corker and corks. Ofcourse I have not tried my wine yet. Good luck.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m considering winemaking, since SWMBO is not very interested in beer (more for me!). Of course, I wouldn’t even consider to stop brewing. I’ve been brewing for 14 years, have done extract, partial mash, and all grain. If I were to rate extract brewing at a ‘4′ level of difficulty, and all grain at an 8 or so, where would winemaking fall on this scale? How much time does winemaking take? Is there any additional equipment (over and above my brewing equipment) that I would need? Can someone recommend a good winemaking book? Are there many brewers out there who also make wine? Thanks Jim
Response:
I’m considering winemaking, since SWMBO is not very interested in beer (more for me!). Of course, I wouldn’t even consider to stop brewing. I’ve been brewing for 14 years, have done extract, partial mash, and all grain. If I were to rate extract brewing at a ‘4′ level of difficulty, and all grain at an 8 or so, where would winemaking fall on this scale? How much time does winemaking take? Is there any additional equipment (over and above my brewing equipment) that I would need? Can someone recommend a good winemaking book? Are there many brewers out there who also make wine? Thanks Jim
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