Question:
On the few occasions I have used fruit juices, syrups and flavor extracts I have been underwhelmed by the fruit character. I now only use thawed, crushed fruit that I picked over before freezing and I get very good results. I should also note that the more fruit, the better in most cases. I once made a first place-winning fruit beer that had 13 pounds (!) of mulberries in it. They were a bitch to pick, but they made a really great beer. – Andrew For all you automated email spammers, here’s the addresses of the board of the FCC:
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anyone tell me if there would be a difference in taste between adding fruit chunks, frozen/thawed fruit chunks, or fruit juice to the secondary. If you freeze the fruit first, it breaks the cell walls, and makes it easier for the yeast to digest the sugars. This usually makes it a quicker ferment. If you’re adding pureed fruit, is there any additional gain from freezing? Or were enough of the cell walls broken in the blending?
Freezing helps even further. Believe it or not. But, it isn’t necessary. -georg non ani sunt permittendi
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Does anyone else see this message every day? It’s the post that keeps on giving. Is it my reader, ISP, or the poster’s ISP? By number of repetitions, that beer has over 70 lbs(!) of mulberries now… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – On the few occasions I have used fruit juices, syrups and flavor extracts I have been underwhelmed by the fruit character. I now only use thawed, crushed fruit that I picked over before freezing and I get very good results. I should also note that the more fruit, the better in most cases. I once made a first place-winning fruit beer that had 13 pounds (!) of mulberries in it. They were a bitch to pick, but they made a really great beer. – Andrew For all you automated email spammers, here’s the addresses of the board of the FCC:
– Sorry for the spam deterrent address in the header. Remove the "-remove-". duke.usask.ca/~rossst/zythepsary.html
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Why does this message keep popping up? I must have come across it a dozen times already!
I’ve noticed this, and dozens of other posts from the same address being repeatedly posted. If I’m paying attention I usually skip this person’s posts, but sometimes I don’t notice until after I’ve downloaded them. Mark —- The email address above is wrong. To reply via email, please change "NoSpam" to "ItsMark" (No quotes)
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Does anyone else see this message every day? It’s the post that keeps on giving. Is it my reader, ISP, or the poster’s ISP? On the few occasions I have used fruit juices, syrups and flavor extracts I
*Something* is wrong either with Ahenckler’s news posting software, or the news server at his host. I see a whole series of his/her posts repeated over and over again for at least a week now. I have reluctantly killfiled that author name, just to avoid the repeat traffic. I’ll gladly remove the filter when/if it seems that the repeat posting has stopped. cc: to Ahenckler, in the hope they can fix the problem. — Dave Whitman "Opinions expressed are those of the author, not Rohm and Haas Co." Remove –".badaddr" or replies will bounce.
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Why does this message keep popping up? I must have come across it a dozen times already! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – On the few occasions I have used fruit juices, syrups and flavor extracts I have been underwhelmed by the fruit character. I now only use thawed, crushed fruit that I picked over before freezing and I get very good results. I should also note that the more fruit, the better in most cases. I once made a first place-winning fruit beer that had 13 pounds (!) of mulberries in it. They were a bitch to pick, but they made a really great beer. – Andrew For all you automated email spammers, here’s the addresses of the board of the FCC:
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Can anyone tell me if there would be a difference in taste between adding fruit chunks, frozen/thawed fruit chunks, or fruit juice to the secondary. If you freeze the fruit first, it breaks the cell walls, and makes it easier for the yeast to digest the sugars. This usually makes it a quicker ferment.
If you’re adding pureed fruit, is there any additional gain from freezing? Or were enough of the cell walls broken in the blending? — Rob Dewhirst Return address is bogus due to spam. If you reply to this message without changing the address, it will bounce. Use: robd "at" lawrence.ixks.com
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Can anyone tell me if there would be a difference in taste between adding fruit chunks, frozen/thawed fruit chunks, or fruit juice to the secondary. I would prefer to use the juice because it would give less crap to rack off of. Also, how would you keep the fruit aroma from being driven off when the addition of the fruit is probably going to cause a secondary ferment? Thanks
By adding any form of fruit to the secondary, you will have a secondary ferment. Period. By adding it to the secondary, you may have more aroma than if you added it to the boil or the primary, simply because the aroma dissipates with time (feel free to correct me on that). Fruit chunks, if unconfined by a nylon bag or equivalent, are very messy. If you freeze the fruit first, it breaks the cell walls, and makes it easier for the yeast to digest the sugars. This usually makes it a quicker ferment. Fruit juice is processed fruit- which to me, means some of the flavors have been processed out. I admit a slight bias against using juice for that reason. Also, commercially available juices tend to have added things like corn syrup and preservatives. Read the label before adding to your brew. I would be willing to use one can of 100% grape concentrate to prime my next batch of beer. -georg non ani sunt permittendi
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Michael, I would probably add the fruit when beginning the secondary ferment. Less flavor loss, and if you use juice, no straining. Boil the fruit, juice, etc, before adding….. the infection protection is worth the minor flavor loss. Failing the boil, at least use a campden tablet. (Ghod, I feel soooo dirty recommending a wine thingy 
Rack the brew and add the fruit. Wait a week, then prime and bottle. You don’t want the sugar, just flavor. 1 week steeping should be enough. Regardless, the fruit will cause a fermentation. Hmmmm……anyone have a priming formula for fruit juice? Ron – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anyone tell me if there would be a difference in taste between adding fruit chunks, frozen/thawed fruit chunks, or fruit juice to the secondary. I would prefer to use the juice because it would give less crap to rack off of. Also, how would you keep the fruit aroma from being driven off when the addition of the fruit is probably going to cause a secondary ferment?
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Can anyone tell me if there would be a difference in taste between adding fruit chunks, frozen/thawed fruit chunks, or fruit juice to the secondary. I would prefer to use the juice because it would give less crap to rack off of. Also, how would you keep the fruit aroma from being driven off when the addition of the fruit is probably going to cause a secondary ferment? Thanks A man hath no better thing under the sun than to eat and drink and be merry… Ecclesiastes 8:15 There are more old drunkards than old doctors. Benjamin Franklin
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D= … You have two choices – add the D= fruit in the boil and put up with a starch haze or add the fruit at high D= krausen during the ferment and risk an infection. The third and perhaps most appropriate choice is to add *clean* fruit to the secondary fermenter and let the brew ferment a second time. Rack a third time for clarification. There’s more than enough alcohol to counteract any bacteria and plenty of viable yeast to get a jump on any wild yeast which may be introduced. No risk of infection! | David "DAsh" Ashley | Home of: | | Foggy Day Homebrewery | "Blue Mountain Pale Ale" | | Portland, Oregon, USA | "Jumpin’ Java Porter" | DAsh says: "I do not fear being proven wrong; it’s just that I don’t *like* it!" {:-)
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From what I gather, boiling fruit will coagulate pectins (some kind of fruit protein, that makes boiled fruit become jam and jelly) that will tend to cloud the beer. Also, the boiling of the wort and vigorous fermentation in the primary will drive off the raspberry flavors and aromas that would otherwise contribute to the beer.
Is there any way to remove the fruit protien? I have a bunch of homemade canned applesauce that Im itching to throw in my secondary fermenter. Thanks. Christopher
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Well, nope…. don’t think you can remove the proteins. Kinda like getting the grease outta McD’s burgers! You have two choices – add the fruit in the boil and put up with a starch haze or add the fruit at high krausen during the ferment and risk an infection. I’ve never gotten an infection myself but there’s little risk with so much yeast activity anyways. This is where I add my dry hops. I’d rather have the fruit fresh in the mix though. If you have problems with your wort glutening up in the boil when adding fruit, use a larger boiling volume. As for a starch haze, I rather like it in a brew. It just plain looks great to see a chilly sleeve of ale with that frosty glow. My next project is a raspberry wheat ale. —– Korg M1 Yamaha TG33 Ensoniq Mirage DSK-8 Roland Boss JX-3P PG-200 DR-660 SE-70 Gravis Ultrasound GUS Cool Edit Cakewalk Guitar Synth Midi & Music : = <= | |#| |#| | |#| |#| |#| | |#| |#| | |#| |#| |#| |: : =_/= | |#| |#| | |#| |#| |#| | |D| |#| | |#| |#| |#| |: : # H | |#| |#| | |#| |#| |#| | |E| |#| | |#| |#| |#| |: : # O | |#| |#| | |#| |#| |#| | |A| |#| | |#| |#| |#| |: : # O M | |#| |#| | |#| |#| |#| | |N| |#| | |#| |#| |#| |: : . # F E | `-’ `-’ | `-’ `-’ `-’ | `-’ `-’ | `-’ `-’ `-’ |: : ) # (PaCiFiCa| | | | | | | | | Vancouver, B.C. | |: : / # STuDioS| | | | | | | | | Canada| | | | |:
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2) I *blanched* the cherries. I got a large pot of water boiling, put the fruit in a cheesecloth sack (a few pounds at a time), and dipped the sack into the boiling water for one minute.
I wonder what would happen if you let them soak in a mild bleach solution instead, then rinsed them thoroughly to remove the chlorine? Just a thought… I’d be scared to do it myself!
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I’ve used rasberries before (I have a big rasberry patch) and found success by soaking the berries in a very dilute solution of bleach (half a cap in 4 gallons H2O), letting it soak for 15 minutes, rinsing with clean water, then mashing and placing at the start of the secondary. From my wine making experience, I’m always hesitant about heating or boiling fruit as it releases pectin and will make a good wine cloudy and hard to clearify. I have to think that it would have the same effect on beer. I did an apple wine using apple cider that I pasteurized, and it took 3 years, 2 tablespoons of diatomaceous earth and 1 packet of gelatin to clear it. Fortunately wine gets better with age. Bryant Winterholer aka 1. Being the berries have not been boiled, it seems possible that contamination could occur. 2. When squeezing the liquid out of the pulp, wouldn’t it be likely to cause oxidation problems? Please help with comments and reccommendations! Thanks. PADI AI 66019 Here’s blowin bubbles! ….. then after my surface interval, it’s time
for a homebrew!! =;-) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
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John, Why not put the fruit in the wort to sanitize and let the fruit sugars be part of the primary fermentation?
From what I gather, boiling fruit will coagulate pectins (some kind of fruit protein, that makes boiled fruit become jam and jelly) that will tend to cloud the beer. Also, the boiling of the wort and vigorous fermentation in the primary will drive off the raspberry flavors and aromas that would otherwise contribute to the beer. John R.
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If your worried about infection you can do two things: 1. Cover fruit in water and dissolve Campden tablets in. Let soak for a couple of days prior to use. 2. Use canned fruit that’s been pastuerized.
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I am going to be starting a batch using raspberries very soon. This will be my first attempt using whole fruit. The only recommendation I have had was to prepare and start the wort in a bucket primary and pitch the yeast and let it go for a couple of days. Then add the raspberries and let it go until ready to rack to secondary. When transferring to secondary, filter raspberry pulp through cheescloth to get as much liquid out as possible. This seems to pose a couple problems to me. Please feel free to comment! 1. Being the berries have not been boiled, it seems possible that contamination could occur.
I bought moldy berries on the half off rack at mejers and boiled them and then let them sit in my oven at 180 for an hour. Added to a primary that I had started in the morning and away it went. I racked two weeks later to secondary and only got a little bit of junk in it. had chill haze in my bottles from the boiling of the fruit until about two weeks in the bottle, when it all settled out in about a day. The beer was the best have brewed. My two cents Cheers, John
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Carl, I used five 12 oz. bags of frozen rasberries, puree’d in the blender (in batches) and heated them to about 160 deg F in the microwave (my attempt at sanitation) before putting them in the secondary, and racking the beer in on top (gently – to avoid aeration). I agree with Jeff about the squeezing. Rack a third time to a "tertiary" fermentor if you wish to reduce floaties before bottling / kegging. BTW, be sure your secondary has adequate head space. Another "mini-primary" ferment will ensue when the yeast gets at all that fruit sugar. Regards, John R. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am going to be starting a batch using raspberries very soon. Please feel free to comment! 1. Being the berries have not been boiled, it seems possible that contamination could occur.
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John, Why not put the fruit in the wort to sanitize and let the fruit sugars be part of the primary fermentation? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I used five 12 oz. bags of frozen rasberries in the secondary, and racking the beer in on top (gently – to avoid aeration).
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am going to be starting a batch using raspberries very soon. This will be my first attempt using whole fruit. The only recommendation I have had was to prepare and start the wort in a bucket primary and pitch the yeast and let it go for a couple of days. Then add the raspberries and let it go until ready to rack to secondary. When transferring to secondary, filter raspberry pulp through cheescloth to get as much liquid out as possible. This seems to pose a couple problems to me. Please feel free to comment! 1. Being the berries have not been boiled, it seems possible that contamination could occur. 2. When squeezing the liquid out of the pulp, wouldn’t it be likely to cause oxidation problems? Please help with comments and reccommendations! Thanks. PADI AI 66019 Here’s blowin bubbles! ….. then after my surface interval, it’s time for a homebrew!! =;-)
**I brewed a Psuedo-kreik and had the same worries. I didn’t want to boil the fruit, since that causes it to gelatinize, leading to haze problems. OTOH, I didn’t want to introduce a bunch of wild yeast and mold spores into my brew, either. My solution was a compromise: 1) I carefully (laboriously!) hand-sorted my 20 lbs. of cherries, rejecting any that had obvioius mold spots or other suspicious markings. 2) I *blanched* the cherries. I got a large pot of water boiling, put the fruit in a cheesecloth sack (a few pounds at a time), and dipped the sack into the boiling water for one minute. While I probably didn’t kill all the beasties, I doubtless did reduce their surface population significantly, and the fruit never got hot enough *inside* to gelatinize. Beer came out great, and even won a prize. Just my $0.02 — good luck!
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I am going to be starting a batch using raspberries very soon. This will be my first attempt using whole fruit. The only recommendation I have had was to prepare and start the wort in a bucket primary and pitch the yeast and let it go for a couple of days. Then add the raspberries and let it go until ready to rack to secondary. When transferring to secondary, filter raspberry pulp through cheescloth to get as much liquid out as possible. This seems to pose a couple problems to me. Please feel free to comment! 1. Being the berries have not been boiled, it seems possible that contamination could occur. 2. When squeezing the liquid out of the pulp, wouldn’t it be likely to cause oxidation problems? Please help with comments and reccommendations! Thanks. PADI AI 66019 Here’s blowin bubbles! ….. then after my surface interval, it’s time for a homebrew!! =;-)
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I have done only one batch with "fruit" in it. On the advice of a fellow homebrewer, I used the fruit extracts. His reasoning was that he had done it with real fruit and found it to be expensive. For a raspberry wheat, he claimed to use 10 pounds. The extracts were only about $8.00 and come in a small bottle that was added with the priming sugar before bottling. I think if the cost was not a problem, I would heat the fruit and boil it down to 1/2 to 1/3 its original volume, cool and place in carboy with airlock, do wort, place in carboy with yeast, ferment, rack to secondary and call it a batch. Steve M.
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[snip] 1. Being the berries have not been boiled, it seems possible that contamination could occur.
True. That’s why you don’t add them until a few days later. Gives your yeast the "upper hand" in fermentation. Most folk I speak with recommend adding fruit in the secondary. Primary fermentation tends to "scrub" the fruit flavor right out. Secondary addition will 1) give more fruit flavor, and 2) guarantee that your yeast is in full control, minimizing secondary infections risks. The drawback is that adding raspberries to a carboy is a pain! 2. When squeezing the liquid out of the pulp, wouldn’t it be likely to cause oxidation problems?
Squeezing liquid from pulp? Nah. Mash up the fruit and toss all of it in: juice, fruit, seeds, and pulp. One other option, is to get raspberry extract and add that at bottling time. Age your beer a couple of extra weeks so the flavor can blend. Please help with comments and reccommendations! Thanks. PADI AI 66019
–JLRH Bedlam Brewery, Redmond, Washington. A polar bear is a rectangular bear after a coordinate transform.
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