Winery Wiki

Question:

Hey, Dan, I’m at work right across the street from the Duck now!  If you get down here soon, get thee to the Steelhead…they’ve got their GABF silver Wee Heavy on tap…heavenly! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – DAsh, is there a way to get a nice printable list of my favs without cut and pasting each link one by one? If so, I’ll give you mine. I do live in the Portland area and will take you up on a beer!  <g Actually, we ought to get together sometime anyway. I still owe Denny a run down to the Wild Duck in Eugene. Geez, now that I think of it, I was going to meet up with Brewer Bob in the Bay area sometime too. Burp, -Dan

Response:

I have a links webpage which may be of use to you. This page is at the following URL: http://www.mosquitonet.com/~stihlerunits/ScottsDen/Beer/Links/BeerLin… There are links from this page to two other of my pages which have a fairly good collection of U.S. craft brewery links. I hope this helps. Cheers, Scott Stihler Fairbanks, Alaska

Response:

Cheers. That’s padded out my favourites page as well. Thanks a lot. Ben

Here ya go: http://www.spagnols.com/main/handouts/glossary/beer/beer_lib_glossary… corbic http://users.chartertn.net/franklinbrew/documents/flavorguide.htm http://home.twcny.rr.com/geomanagement/ensmingr/beer/beerdata.html http://brewingtechniques.com/library/backissues/issue2.4/millspaw.html http://www.greatlakes.brewingnews.com/9710/homebrew0.html http://realbeer.com/library/archives/glbn/9710/homebrew0.html http://hbd.org/hbd/CurrentHBD.html http://www.enzymedevelopment.com/starch.htm http://www.brewtek.com/finings_article.html http://hbd.org/brewery/index.html http://brewpubmag.com/98aug/craftbrewer.html http://byo.com/byo/BrewPub/97mar/craftbrewer.html http://www.beerhunter.com/documents/19133-000041.html http://www.birkocorp.com/chlorine.asp http://www.clis.com/morgan/Troubleshooting/Body/body.htm http://www.fivestarchemicals.com/homebrew/products.html http://www.sleeman.com/en/heritage/processes.html http://home.elp.rr.com/brewbeer/files/nbsparge.html http://www.allaboutbeer.com/homebrew/water.html http://www.ultranet.com/~wnevits/wizards/snclone.htm http://home.elp.rr.com/brewbeer/chiller/chiller.html http://www.foamrangers.com/styles/ http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/recipator/recipator/styles.html http://home.att.net/~lumeisenman/ http://toledometalspinning.com/ http://www.beertools.com/index.shtml http://internet.ggu.edu/university_library/beverages.html http://www-sci.lib.uci.edu/HSG/RefCalculators1.html http://www.rackers.org/calcs.shtml http://www.howtobrew.com/section2/chapter12-5.html http://brewingtechniques.com/library/backissues/issue1.3/manning.html http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/recipator/brew/widgets/sg.html http://www.onlineconversion.com/ http://www.geocities.com/andrew_avis/sb/ http://hbd.org/recipator/ http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/recipator/recipator http://hbd.org/carboy/ballkegclean.htm http://www.brewery.org/brewery/library/kegAR.html http://www.northernbrewer.com/keg-repair-parts.html http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/recipator/recipator/carbonation.html?2233960#tag http://brewingtechniques.com/bmg/adm.html http://brewingtechniques.com/bmg/noonan.html http://honey.bio.waikato.ac.nz/honey_1.shtml http://www.orst.edu/food-resource/sugar/sweet.html http://www.realbeer.com/spencer/FAQ/sugar.html http://home.thezone.net/~phumber/sugars.htm http://www.goodgulf.com/yeast.html http://byo.com/96sep/feature.html http://brewpubmag.com/97aug/craftbrewer.html http://brewpubmag.com/98aug/craftbrewer.html http://www.lallemand.com/danstar-lalvin/beerfaq.html http://www.lallemand.com/danstar-lalvin/beerfaq.html#rehydrate http://www.dclyeast.co.uk/brewingproject.html http://hbd.org/hbd/archive/3249.html http://hbd.org/hbd/archive/1933.html http://listproc.ucdavis.edu/archives/ven3w00/log0001/0008.html http://steinfillers.com/YEASTP.htm http://www.er.ele.tue.nl/NvRiel/interlaboratory comparison.pdf http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf1998/shi98a.pdf http://www.scisoc.org/asbc/Journal/pdfs/1999/0401-02R.pdf http://brewingtechniques.com/library/backissues/issue2.3/kingtable.html http://www.hopbier.myweb.nl/pitching.html http://www.whitelabs.com/index.html http://www.wyeastlab.com/education/edyechoo.htm Rocketboy

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [snip] DAsh, sorry to hear about your loss. That’s one reason I use Yahoo Companion. It also makes my bookmarks accessible from any computer. Here’s my list of homebrew related bookmarks. I’ll apologise in advance for posting html, but that’s the way they get exported. I’m not even sure how well they will appear in this post. Hope it works: Well, it apparantly didn’t work as well as I’d hoped. Oh well, the urls are in there but you’ll have to dig. Sorry.

To make the list readable,     Save it to a folder such as C:beer.     Change the file type to .html     Type "C:BeerRe_ Plea for URL’s.html" into your browser address window. Todd Tilton

Response:

A huge and hearty "Thank you" to all who responded with their Favorites lists.  I now have a truly *bloated* list all of my own…. wayyyyy more than I had in the first place and wayyyyy more than I’ll be able to utilize in a short amount of time.  I think I thanked each one of you who responded individually, but if I missed you or you or you, it was simply an oversight on my part and not intentional.  Please feel free to e-mail me if you plan on being in the Portland, Oregon area.  If schedules can be arranged, I’d like nothing more than to meet you at a local pub and share some stories and brew. — –DAsh with 7119)

Response:

grep http post | cut -f 2 -d """ urls.txt Being a geek is great sometimes.

‘Specially if you run a *nix box.  (Or have *nix tools on a Billy Boy box.) — [Apparent Rennerian 567.7, 95.9] Al – rukbat at optonline dot net

Response:

grep http post | cut -f 2 -d """ urls.txt Being a geek is great sometimes. http://www.beerhunter.com/index.html http://www.spartanburgstainless.com/aseptic.html http://realbeer.com/spencer/yeast.html http://hometown.aol.com/brwyfoam/Homebrewing-with-Fix.html http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/recipator/recipator/carbonation.html http://users.chartertn.net/franklinbrew/gadgets/cpfiller.htm#Top http://users.chartertn.net/franklinbrew/gadgets/mash_stirrer.htm http://www.netbeer.co.at/beer/english/index.htm http://www.williamsbrewing.com/ http://www.flash.net/~arkmay/Mark/rsf_tour/index.html http://www.movingbrews.com/catalog.html http://www.brewtek.com/toc.html http://www.wyeastlab.com/ http://jackswebproductions.com/beeronline/ushop/ http://www.bottleworks.com/ http://www.homebrewheaven.com/vIndex.htm http://brew.oeonline.com/mcab/index.html http://web.tiscalinet.it/barboteur/beer/yeast_E.html http://www.brasseurs-mv.dyndns.org/homebreweries.html#LETTER-S http://www.hbd.org/ http://brewery.org/brewery/wwwboard/wwwboard.html http://www.sassafrastea.com/ http://www.oregonbrewcrew.com/index.html http://www.cynmar.com/home.tpl?cart=30340667713927 http://www.zymico.com/ http://www.promash.com/ http://www.brewbyyou.net/IBOC.htm#Questions http://www.vwrsp.com/ http://www.howtobrew.com/ http://www.stpats.com/ http://www.goodgulf.com/yeast.html http://toledometalspinning.com/ http://www.badfrog.com/view_detail.asp?ProductID=135 http://hbd.org/starcity/images/box/box.htm http://www.polytankco.com/cone-bottom_tanks.html http://hbd.org/brewery/library/Malt101.html — Rocketboy

Response:

205 McM’s? Iknow of at least four off of the 205; West Linn, Oregon City, Clackamas and Mall 205….Oh, Mall 205!  Well, I don’t know how to play cribbage and I’m tied up tonight but we’ll definitely have to have a beer sometime.

Oops… I meant to insert the Mall word there… darn it.  But it’s okay– the Hammerhead was off-flavor, too citrus-y (blechhh!) and the Terminator was flat.  The cribbage game was a lot of fun, though.  Anyway, there are much better pubs at which to drink beer– Lucky Lab, Snake and Weasle, Old Market on Garden Home, The Alemeda– many others.  Your pick? Here’s my list (sorry about all the HTML code but Explorer exports it all to HtML and the cut and paste was messy):

I’ve never used it; now that I’ve seen the result, perhaps I never will….. ?  But thank you for the links.  There are some excellent ones there. — –DAsh with 7119)

Response:

Ok, so I e-mailed my URL’s already, but it seems that others are also interested in the links, so here’s my contribution, with some of the crappy outdated ones removed.  Enjoy! Kelvin http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&group=rec.crafts.brewing http://www.foamrangers.com/styles/index.html http://www.mv.com/ipusers/slack/bjcp/ http://www.bodensatz.com/homebrew http://www.liddil.com http://home.elp.rr.com/brewbeer http://www.strangebrew.ca http://hbd.org/~ddraper/beer.html http://hbd.org/uchima/ http://realbeer.com/hops/ http://www.hoptech.com/ http://www.fortunecity.com/boozers/brewerytap/555/hops/hops.htm http://realbeer.com/spencer/hops-faq.html#credits http://www.bohemiahop.cz/ http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/default.html http://www.uvm.edu/~pass/perry/hops.html http://home.netcom.com/~dluzanp/ http://www.vbe.com/~hawley/hops.htm http://www.ars-grin.gov/ars/PacWest/Corvallis/ncgr/humulus/huminfo.html http://www.dnai.com/~thor/dboard/dbnewsl/t9509d.htm http://www.usahops.org/ http://pw1.netcom.com/~dluzanp/backyard.htm http://realbeer.com/hops/FAQ.html http://kbs.msu.edu/~laatsch/equipment/keg.faq http://w3.tvi.cc.nm.us/~austin/keg.html http://www.southerndraft.com/9604/Begin.html http://www.brewingtechniques.com/library/backissues/issue5.1/fleming…. http://brewery.org/brewery/library/KegCleanDH1095.html http://www.brewingtechniques.com/library/backissues/issue1.1/techcomm… http://beer.about.com/library/weekly/aa051898.htm?once=true&" http://hbd.org/cdp/kegferm.htm http://brewery.org/brewery/library/CO2charts.html http://home.elp.rr.com/brewbeer/files/fridge.html http://web2.airmail.net/bcunning/homebrew/kegfridg.htm http://www.bodensatz.com/homebrew/kegging/corny.html http://www.brewery.org/brewery/library/kegAR.html http://www.ebrew.com/primarynews/intro_keg_system.htm http://hbd.org/starcity/images/box/box.htm http://www.northernbrewsystems.com/ http://www-sci.lib.uci.edu/HSG/RefCalculators1.html#COOK-BEER http://bayareamashers.org/BatchSparging.htm http://home.elp.rr.com/brewbeer/files/nbsparge.html http://www.draughters.com/pro_brew/asixsteps.html http://www.howtobrew.com/ http://www.brewery.org/brewery/Library.html#Mills# http://bergsman.org/jeremy/lambic/lambic.html http://hbd.org/brewery/library/LmbicJL0696.html#StartersC http://www.tiac.net/users/tjd/bier/wild.html http://www.beertools.com/index.shtml ftp://ftp.stanford.edu/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer/docs/ http://www.beertown.org/ http://www.byo.com/ http://www.brewingtechniques.com/ http://www.breworld.com/homebrew/ http://hbd.org/ http://www.homebrew.com/ http://home.twcny.rr.com/geomanagement/ensmingr/beer/beerdata.html http://www.brewery.org/brewery/cm3/CatsMeow3.html http://www.brewery.org/brewery/gambmug/gambmug.shtml http://brewing.co.nz/yeast.htm http://www.goodgulf.com/yeast.html http://www.primetab.com/yeaststarter.html http://www.yeastculturekit.com/

Response:

205 McM’s? Iknow of at least four off of the 205; West Linn, Oregon City, Clackamas and Mall 205….Oh, Mall 205!  Well, I don’t know how to play cribbage and I’m tied up tonight but we’ll definitely have to have a beer sometime. Here’s my list (sorry about all the HTML code but Explorer exports it all to HtML and the cut and paste was messy): <DT<A HREF="http://www.beerhunter.com/index.html" ADD_DATE="972061757" LAST_VISIT="1011340800" LAST_MODIFIED="972061758"Michael Jackson’s Beer Hunter</A         <DT<A HREF="http://www.spartanburgstainless.com/aseptic.html" ADD_DATE="995557047" LAST_VISIT="1011340800" LAST_MODIFIED="995557048"Aseptic Container Systems</A         <DT<A HREF="http://realbeer.com/spencer/yeast.html" ADD_DATE="972363679" LAST_VISIT="1011340800" LAST_MODIFIED="972363680"Yeast Information and Technique Resource</A         <DT<A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/brwyfoam/Homebrewing-with-Fix.html" ADD_DATE="989392705" LAST_VISIT="1011340800" LAST_MODIFIED="989392706"Homebrewing-with-Fix</A         <DT<A HREF="http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/recipator/recipator/carbonation.html" ADD_DATE="997728148" LAST_VISIT="1011340800" LAST_MODIFIED="997728150"The Beer Recipator – Carbonation</A         <DT<A HREF="http://users.chartertn.net/franklinbrew/gadgets/cpfiller.htm#Top" ADD_DATE="997987682" LAST_VISIT="1011340800" LAST_MODIFIED="997987684"Counter Pressure Bottling Station</A         <DT<A HREF="http://users.chartertn.net/franklinbrew/gadgets/mash_stirrer.htm" ADD_DATE="997987977" LAST_VISIT="1011340800" LAST_MODIFIED="997987978"Mash Stirrer</A         <DT<A HREF="http://www.netbeer.co.at/beer/english/index.htm" ADD_DATE="998242806" LAST_VISIT="1011340800" LAST_MODIFIED="998242808"Netbeer

Question:

to all, this is my first attempt at a newsgroup posting so bear with me. i have recently purchased a basic home winemaking kit and am looking for some good sites for some much needed help. any advice will be appreciated. thanks!

Response:

Two places to look first.  There are others. http://home.att.net/~lumeisenman/contents.html http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/index.asp dewey

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – to all, this is my first attempt at a newsgroup posting so bear with me. i have recently purchased a basic home winemaking kit and am looking for some good sites for some much needed help. any advice will be appreciated. thanks!

Response:

dewey, thanks for the info. will check them out. bobalu – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Two places to look first.  There are others. http://home.att.net/~lumeisenman/contents.html http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/index.asp dewey to all, this is my first attempt at a newsgroup posting so bear with me. i have recently purchased a basic home winemaking kit and am looking for some good sites for some much needed help. any advice will be appreciated. thanks!

Response:

to all, this is my first attempt at a newsgroup posting so bear with me. i have recently purchased a basic home winemaking kit and am looking for some good sites for some much needed help. any advice will be appreciated. thanks!

Hi Bobalu: Welcome.  This should keep you busy for a while…:-)… General Information Sites: http://www.britannica.com/bcom/eb/article/1/0,5716,108451+11,00.html – Excellent article on the entire winemaking process from the Encyclopedia Britannica http://www.pobox.com/~malak/rcw.faq – Don Buchan & Meg’s fine FAQ for this newsgroup. Basic Instructional Sites: http://www.wyeastlab.com/education/edwiprod.htm – EXCELLENT basic instructions from the Wyeast yeast company. http://www.sentex.net/~kamil/winemaking.html – Very good instructions from Kamil Juice Company (good use of photos) http://wineserver.ucdavis.edu/WineGrape/Homewine/index.htm – A pretty good pdf book on home winemaking from the folks at UCDavis. http://www.spagnols.com/ – Spagnol’s fine site.  From the homepage click on "homebrew handouts" in the upper right, then "wine" from the column on the left, then click on the "making wine from fresh juice" link.  (Also; be sure to read all of the other handouts as well). Advanced Sites: http://home.att.net/~lumeisenman/index.html – Lum Eisenman’s outstanding manual for home winemakers.  THE BEST winemaking site on the web.  BTW, this ng is fortunate to have Lum as one of its resident experts. http://home.pacbell.net/toms/ – Web site of another ng regular: TomS. Tom is our resident expert on the creation of fine California Chardonnay, as well as on the subject of "Debourbage" (the clearing of juice prior to fermentation). http://www.raptoridge.com/oct96.html – Scott Shull, a maker of Burgundian style Pinot Noir at Raptor Ridge Winery gives a very thorough outline of his technique. More Winemaking Links: http://www.clospepe.com/links/winemaking.htm – A good list of links from Wes Hagen’s fine "Clos Pepe" web site. http://www.geocities.com/NapaValley/1172/ – Jack Keller’s fine site.  Places an emphasis on fruit or "Country" wines. In terms of books, I would recommend that you read the following books, in the following order: _Winemaking: Recipes, Equipment, & Techniques for Making Wine at Home_, Stanley F. Anderson, & Dorothy Anderson. _From Vines to Wines: The Complete Guide to Growing Grapes & Making Your Own Wine__ – Jeff Cox _Grapes into Wine_ – Philip M. Wagner _Modern Winemaking_ – Philip Jackisch _Knowing & Making Wine_ – Emile Peynaud.  The seminal work on the subject. A Masterpiece of remarkable depth & expanse. Hope this helps. Prosit: Ed, Odyssey Cellars — The Viticulture FAQ & Glossary – http://www.itsmysite.com/vitfaq           "I like on the table, when we’re speaking,            The light of a bottle of intelligent wine."                               -Pablo Neruda

Response:

thanks for the information and yes, indeed it will keep me busy for a while!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – to all, this is my first attempt at a newsgroup posting so bear with me. i have recently purchased a basic home winemaking kit and am looking for some good sites for some much needed help. any advice will be appreciated. thanks! Hi Bobalu: Welcome.  This should keep you busy for a while…:-)… General Information Sites: http://www.britannica.com/bcom/eb/article/1/0,5716,108451+11,00.html – Excellent article on the entire winemaking process from the Encyclopedia Britannica http://www.pobox.com/~malak/rcw.faq – Don Buchan & Meg’s fine FAQ for this newsgroup. Basic Instructional Sites: http://www.wyeastlab.com/education/edwiprod.htm – EXCELLENT basic instructions from the Wyeast yeast company. http://www.sentex.net/~kamil/winemaking.html – Very good instructions from Kamil Juice Company (good use of photos) http://wineserver.ucdavis.edu/WineGrape/Homewine/index.htm – A pretty good pdf book on home winemaking from the folks at UCDavis. http://www.spagnols.com/ – Spagnol’s fine site.  From the homepage click on "homebrew handouts" in the upper right, then "wine" from the column on the left, then click on the "making wine from fresh juice" link.  (Also; be sure to read all of the other handouts as well). Advanced Sites: http://home.att.net/~lumeisenman/index.html – Lum Eisenman’s outstanding manual for home winemakers.  THE BEST winemaking site on the web.  BTW, this ng is fortunate to have Lum as one of its resident experts. http://home.pacbell.net/toms/ – Web site of another ng regular: TomS. Tom is our resident expert on the creation of fine California Chardonnay, as well as on the subject of "Debourbage" (the clearing of juice prior to fermentation). http://www.raptoridge.com/oct96.html – Scott Shull, a maker of Burgundian style Pinot Noir at Raptor Ridge Winery gives a very thorough outline of his technique. More Winemaking Links: http://www.clospepe.com/links/winemaking.htm – A good list of links from Wes Hagen’s fine "Clos Pepe" web site. http://www.geocities.com/NapaValley/1172/ – Jack Keller’s fine site. Places an emphasis on fruit or "Country" wines. In terms of books, I would recommend that you read the following books, in the following order: _Winemaking: Recipes, Equipment, & Techniques for Making Wine at Home_, Stanley F. Anderson, & Dorothy Anderson. _From Vines to Wines: The Complete Guide to Growing Grapes & Making Your Own Wine__ – Jeff Cox _Grapes into Wine_ – Philip M. Wagner _Modern Winemaking_ – Philip Jackisch _Knowing & Making Wine_ – Emile Peynaud.  The seminal work on the subject. A Masterpiece of remarkable depth & expanse. Hope this helps. Prosit: Ed, Odyssey Cellars — The Viticulture FAQ & Glossary – http://www.itsmysite.com/vitfaq           "I like on the table, when we’re speaking,            The light of a bottle of intelligent wine."                               -Pablo Neruda

Response:

Question:

A friend gave me an old (closeted for 1.5-2 years) wine kit:  Vintner’s Reserve Chardonnay. The kit is as simple as it gets. 1) foil bag of must 2) 1 sealed plastic packet of Bentonite 3) 1 sealed plastic packet of Potassium Metabisulfite 4) 1 sealed plastic packet of Sorbate De Potassium 5) 1 sealed plastic packet of Ichtiocolle 6) 1 sealed paper/foil packet of Premier Cuvee wine yeast I have three questions: First, about the yeast.  I assume this is dead and should be replaced.  Should I use the dead yeast in the boil (water) as yeast nutrient or discard?  Any yeast suggestions if I can’t find the identical packet? Second, are any of these other elements subject to spoilage?  Should anything be replaced? Third, is there anything I should do to compensate for the age of this kit or anything that might augment this kit to produce a better wine? Thanks again in advance, Carter

Response:

Carter,    go do the kit. It would be a great way to hone up on skills, even if it doesn’t work out, and you won’t have to put yourself out for a lot of $$. Don’t throw out the yeast, and , for God’s sakes don’t boil it in water! Just get another package of same yeast at your local winemaking supply store and use it along with the old package.    The bentonite and S. Metabisulphite should be fine. The sorbate is most likely dead so throw that out. Since Chardonnay is best appreciated dry, you probably won’t need the sorbate anyway. The other stuff was probably clarifying material, but with proper use of bentonite, you won’t need that either. Buy yourself a few more Camden tablets (easy to use) and a package of titrettes for measuring the sulphite content of the wine as it progresses.    Now go have fun and enjoy the gift. Joanne

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -A friend gave me an old (closeted for 1.5-2 years) wine kit:  Vintner’s Reserve Chardonnay. The kit is as simple as it gets. 1) foil bag of must 2) 1 sealed plastic packet of Bentonite 3) 1 sealed plastic packet of Potassium Metabisulfite 4) 1 sealed plastic packet of Sorbate De Potassium 5) 1 sealed plastic packet of Ichtiocolle 6) 1 sealed paper/foil packet of Premier Cuvee wine yeast I have three questions: First, about the yeast.  I assume this is dead and should be replaced. Should I use the dead yeast in the boil (water) as yeast nutrient or discard?  Any yeast suggestions if I can’t find the identical packet? Second, are any of these other elements subject to spoilage?  Should anything be replaced? Third, is there anything I should do to compensate for the age of this kit or anything that might augment this kit to produce a better wine? Thanks again in advance, Carter

Response:

You may find that the concentrate has become oxidized. If that is the case, it may not be worth the effort. LARRY

Response:

just out of curiosity .. how would it have been oxidized? charlie   You may find that the concentrate has become oxidized. If that is the case, it may not be worth the effort.   LARRY

Response:

I have no idea what the process would be, but I did experience this problem with a concentrate I received that was at least two years old. It was an Alexander’s product, it was a Rose’ and it was brown when I opened the can, and the finished product was surely a disappointment. Larry

Response:

Joanne, Why would the sorbate be "dead"? Eddie V.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Carter,    go do the kit. It would be a great way to hone up on skills, even if it doesn’t work out, and you won’t have to put yourself out for a lot of $$. Don’t throw out the yeast, and , for God’s sakes don’t boil it in water! Just get another package of same yeast at your local winemaking supply store and use it along with the old package.    The bentonite and S. Metabisulphite should be fine. The sorbate is most likely dead so throw that out. Since Chardonnay is best appreciated dry, you probably won’t need the sorbate anyway. The other stuff was probably clarifying material, but with proper use of bentonite, you won’t need that either. Buy yourself a few more Camden tablets (easy to use) and a package of titrettes for measuring the sulphite content of the wine as it progresses.    Now go have fun and enjoy the gift. Joanne A friend gave me an old (closeted for 1.5-2 years) wine kit:  Vintner’s Reserve Chardonnay. The kit is as simple as it gets. 1) foil bag of must 2) 1 sealed plastic packet of Bentonite 3) 1 sealed plastic packet of Potassium Metabisulfite 4) 1 sealed plastic packet of Sorbate De Potassium 5) 1 sealed plastic packet of Ichtiocolle 6) 1 sealed paper/foil packet of Premier Cuvee wine yeast I have three questions: First, about the yeast.  I assume this is dead and should be replaced. Should I use the dead yeast in the boil (water) as yeast nutrient or discard? Any yeast suggestions if I can’t find the identical packet? Second, are any of these other elements subject to spoilage?  Should anything be replaced? Third, is there anything I should do to compensate for the age of this kit or anything that might augment this kit to produce a better wine? Thanks again in advance, Carter

Response:

Sorbate has a shelf life of about a year. Store carefully in your fridge. Joanne

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Joanne, Why would the sorbate be "dead"? Eddie V. Carter,    go do the kit. It would be a great way to hone up on skills, even if it doesn’t work out, and you won’t have to put yourself out for a lot of $$. Don’t throw out the yeast, and , for God’s sakes don’t boil it in water! Just get another package of same yeast at your local winemaking supply store and use it along with the old package.    The bentonite and S. Metabisulphite should be fine. The sorbate is most likely dead so throw that out. Since Chardonnay is best appreciated dry, you probably won’t need the sorbate anyway. The other stuff was probably clarifying material, but with proper use of bentonite, you won’t need that either. Buy yourself a few more Camden tablets (easy to use) and a package of titrettes for measuring the sulphite content of the wine as it progresses.    Now go have fun and enjoy the gift. Joanne A friend gave me an old (closeted for 1.5-2 years) wine kit:  Vintner’s Reserve Chardonnay. The kit is as simple as it gets. 1) foil bag of must 2) 1 sealed plastic packet of Bentonite 3) 1 sealed plastic packet of Potassium Metabisulfite 4) 1 sealed plastic packet of Sorbate De Potassium 5) 1 sealed plastic packet of Ichtiocolle 6) 1 sealed paper/foil packet of Premier Cuvee wine yeast I have three questions: First, about the yeast.  I assume this is dead and should be replaced. Should I use the dead yeast in the boil (water) as yeast nutrient or discard? Any yeast suggestions if I can’t find the identical packet? Second, are any of these other elements subject to spoilage?  Should anything be replaced? Third, is there anything I should do to compensate for the age of this kit or anything that might augment this kit to produce a better wine? Thanks again in advance, Carter

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Question:

Hi John, You’ve already received some great advice.  I particularly like Ed’s "off variety" selections especially Chardonel. There’s a winery in S. Ill, Alto Pass, that’s doing a nice job with this grape. Also there’s a red variety, Marechal Foch, that’s being made into a delectable wine by Christine Lawlor at Gelena Cellars in the North western part of Ill. Your state is in about the same "state" of the wine industry growth that Missouri was 20 years ago.  There is much excitement and quite a bit of research taking place.  Here’s a partial list and some information from Urbana: http://w3.aces.uiuc.edu/NRES/faculty/Skirvin/cfar/winecult.htm SIU in Carbondale is also doing quite a bit. A good friend of mine, Dr. Brad Taylor is spearheading many projects there and I’m sure he would be willing to lend a hand if you wanted to contact him. I’ve had some good dealings with this nursery in Arkansas. They will have ‘most any variety that you’d want to plant and will sell in small quantities: http://www.alcasoft.com/arkansas/grape.html latron clyde I live in Central Illinois.  I have had great success growing eatin’ grapes (catawba, niagra, and concord), and now I want to try some wine grapes. Any ideas on varieties which can withstand the climate and make a good homemade wine?  Any ideas on where to get the plants in small quantities? Any advice would be appreciated.  Thanks

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Hi John-I live in the Kansas City area which probably has similar weather to yours.  I grow grapes and make wine as a hobby and have been doing so for 5 years.  So, I’m still new to this but have had some success. I also reccommend that you contact your County Extension Office for advice about grapes for your area.  Also, Southwest Missouri State University has a Department of Fruit Science that is serious about wine grape production. You could contact them <http://mtngrv.smsu.edu.  Your own state university system may have a similar fruit science department. I have five varieties in my vineyard (140 vines).  The whites are Vidal Blanc and Chardonel.  The reds are Baco Noir, Leon Millot and Norton.  Both white varieties make wonderful wine.  Norton is my favorite red grape but I just planted these last season.   My vines won’t be able to produce a crop for a couple of years.  However, if you buy a bottle of Stone Hill Norton you will see why I like this grape.  I had about given up hope that the Bacos and Leons could make a good red wine.  However, I think I was too impatient with them.  The 1999 Baco is turning into a very good red wine and a blend of Baco and Leon is very good also.  While the white wines are very good to drink young the reds seem to need some time before they are at their best.  I guess this shouldn’t be a surprise. I should note that I originally had St. Vincent and DeChaunac grapes in my vineyard.  I gave up on them and pulled them up replanting with Norton and Chardonel.  I hated to pull up 4 year-old vines but they wines were not good.  If I knew in 1995 what I know now about wine grape varieties I would have planted Vidal Blanc, Chardonel, Norton and Chambourcin.   I believe these four varieties would give you about the best wines possible for our areas.  The Chambourcin is grown by others in the area.  It makes a fine dry red wine that can take a lot of oak. You can buy Chardonel and Norton from Chaumette Vineyard (St. Louis area). Their phone numbers are 573-756-6574  and 314-444-1927.  I bought my other varieties from Foster/Concord Nurseries in New York.  Their phone number is 800-223-2211. Best regards, Bill Frazier Olathe, Kansas – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I live in Central Illinois.  I want to try some wine grapes. Any ideas on varieties which can withstand the climate and make a good homemade wine?  Any ideas on where to get the plants in small quantities?

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I live in Central Illinois.  I have had great success growing eatin’ grapes (catawba, niagra, and concord), and now I want to try some wine grapes. Any ideas on varieties which can withstand the climate and make a good homemade wine?  Any ideas on where to get the plants in small quantities? Any advice would be appreciated.  Thanks

Hi John: First off, with respect to cultivar selection, be sure to check with both your County Ag folks as well as any commercial growers in your proximate area. Since so much about viticulture (and particularly about cultivar selection) is site specific, it is very important to get your advice as close to home as possible. With this said, however, you may also wish to peruse my Viticulture FAQ & Glossary (url below).  In particular see section V7 wherein is a discussion about matching the climate of the growing site with the cultivars likely to thrive there. Since you are successfully growing Catawba, Niagra, & Concord, I would bet that you are in the climate region I call "Region IB".  Therefore, I would generally recommend the following cultivars: White: Aurore, Cayuga White, Seyval Blanc, Vidal Blanc, Vignoles, & Traminette Red: Foch, Baco Noir, Chelois, & Leon Millot Finally, if you have a very favorable site (particularly well draining soils, well ventilated, with a southward facing aspect, average temps higher than the norm for the area, etc) you might want to experiment with some "marginal" cultivars like: White:  Chardonel, White Riesling, & Chardonnay. Red: Chambourcin, & Cabernet Franc. In closing, with respect to acquiring your cultivars, you will find a listing of nurseries on some of the reference sites I list in sub-section 5 of section V1 of the FAQ. Good luck.  Hope this helps. Prosit: Ed — The Viticulture FAQ & Glossary – http://www.itsmysite.com/vitfaq           "I like on the table, when we’re speaking,            The light of a bottle of intelligent wine."                               -Pablo Neruda

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I live in Central Illinois.  I have had great success growing eatin’ grapes (catawba, niagra, and concord), and now I want to try some wine grapes. Any ideas on varieties which can withstand the climate and make a good homemade wine?  Any ideas on where to get the plants in small quantities? Any advice would be appreciated.  Thanks

Response:

I live in Central Illinois.  I have had great success growing eatin’ grapes (catawba, niagra, and concord), and now I want to try some wine grapes. Any ideas on varieties which can withstand the climate and make a good homemade wine?  Any ideas on where to get the plants in small quantities? Any advice would be appreciated.  Thanks

Aurora grows pretty well here (Springfield). It’s tolerant of our weather extremes, and the grapes can produce a decent white wine. Can’t speak to a red. There are some people growing some red grapes (Foch comes to mind), but the wines have been particularly unimpressive. Are you in the Springfield area? –Lee

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Question:

BTW, there is more to this story… About a week after his meeting with the genie, Luigi was grubbing up his old, sickly hybrid grapevines & was replanting the rows with brand new rose bushes when the genie once again magically appeared before him. The genie said, "One thing I forgot to tell you Luigi, and this is very important…If you ever tell anyone about your magic urine, and by telling the story you incite a political, moral, or religious debate, then your magic urine will be Chianti Classico Grand Reserva no longer.  Instead, it will be lowly Mad Dog 20/20 forever!" Without saying a word, Luigi dejectedly bowed his head, and walked over to his few remaining DeChaunac vines and began to take cuttings. Ed — The Viticulture FAQ & Glossary – http://www.itsmysite.com/vitfaq           "I like on the table, when we’re speaking,            The light of a bottle of intelligent wine."                               -Pablo Neruda Before you buy.

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     Ahh….Dudes?  One man’s religious beliefs can be another man’s bed wetting, wake-up-screaming night mare.  I won’t say I agree or disagree with prayer in school, how some ever, they (religious views / opinions) would probably be best left off of _this_ NG.      I’m reminded of a discussion that occurred not so long ago that really tore through the fabric of many relations on this News Group.        Thanks,                Jim L.

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Lincoln), during thier allotted 5 minutes at Arecibo:     Ahh….Dudes?  One man’s religious beliefs can be another man’s bed wetting, wake-up-screaming night mare.  I won’t say I agree or disagree with prayer in school, how some ever, they (religious views / opinions) would probably be best left off of _this_ NG.     I’m reminded of a discussion that occurred not so long ago that really tore through the fabric of many relations on this News Group.       Thanks,               Jim L.

If you’re saying we ought to talk about wine instead, I agree  - NR "We are George Ohm of Borg, resistance is voltage devided by current." C3 Agentmaking Script Numbers 41700-41750 Reserved. http://web.infoave.net/~missy1/osiris   http://web.infoave.net/~missy1/nukenorn http://members.xoom.com/Nite417       <–under reconstruction http://niter417.virtualave.net/       <–under construction

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just the same, it seems as if something very valuable is steadily being sloughed off of society. It’s as though tradition and belief are becoming obsolete… or perhaps replaced by a general attitude along the lines of "I am all powerful, I am the God of my destiny, I make all the rules". I’m pretty sure that’s not the solution either… Maybe there isn’t one, or… Maybe the real solution is what is already here, and always has been: destruction and rebirth, endlessly. Perhaps the real faith should be that of "I will somehow survive bad times, and neglect good times, and eventually die, and the world will never change, because it never has"… Cheers!  - NR

I was raised as a christian and was confirmed when i was 16. As a britsh army officer i was expected to display my christianity formally but i did not object to that.  I found as I grew older and perhaps a little wiser that I could not believe in god and life in the hereafter! The sight of salmon fighting their way up stream just to spawn   and die seems to me to belie the existance of "PIE in the sky when we die." Having said that we do need a moral code to live by. my own sense of right anf wrong  and duty to other was largely engendered by my mother and father, who never  attended church regularly except for chritening, weddings and funerals but they ensure that I was given the basic teaching of the church of england and it music. I am forever grateful for the music because it still gies me much pleasure and some much very good choraal music originates from the church. I dont know what the answer is! I find that politicians trying to impose a moral code fail miserably   but there is a need to quantify our behaviour to each other and live by an acceptable set of rules! Nuff said by me I think! Pleasant companionship with a few glasses of a well aged claret and all the trouble become insignificant — From Trevor A Panther In South Yorkshire, England "Wine is a delight to all the senses"

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Yaaawwwn! … what’s your point ? go somewhere else … PLEEEEASE! " And imposing the God of Christianity would make things better? Having – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Christian beliefs included in public education didn’t do much to prevent the oppression or mistreatment of blacks, Jews, gays, or women in years past. You can’t even get Christians to agree on what Christian beliefs are. I have a Pentecostal friend who thinks the Catholic church is a cult. It opens up too many areas for disagreement and confusion, and just puts teachers in a difficult position. Keep religion out of the public schools. If parents want to instill religious beliefs in their children, that’s their right, but I won’t have my tax dollars supporting such an endeavor. Brian

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following distant transmission from "Brian Lundeen" Arecibo: And imposing the God of Christianity would make things better? Having Christian beliefs included in public education didn’t do much to prevent the oppression or mistreatment of blacks, Jews, gays, or women in years past. You can’t even get Christians to agree on what Christian beliefs are. I have a Pentecostal friend who thinks the Catholic church is a cult. It opens up too many areas for disagreement and confusion, and just puts teachers in a difficult position. Keep religion out of the public schools. If parents want to instill religious beliefs in their children, that’s their right, but I won’t have my tax dollars supporting such an endeavor. Brian

I agree about the Christianity issue… Around here, the Christians seem to think that Jesus really meant you should spend all your time shooting deer, watching football, drinking moonshine, and gossiping about so-and-so. Even the members of one church can’t agree on anything. The leadership in the nearby Church of Christ is a vicious political game of pettiness and power. Just the same, it seems as if something very valuable is steadily being sloughed off of society. It’s as though tradition and belief are becoming obsolete… or perhaps replaced by a general attitude along the lines of "I am all powerful, I am the God of my destiny, I make all the rules". I’m pretty sure that’s not the solution either… Maybe there isn’t one, or… Maybe the real solution is what is already here, and always has been: destruction and rebirth, endlessly. Perhaps the real faith should be that of "I will somehow survive bad times, and neglect good times, and eventually die, and the world will never change, because it never has"… Cheers!  - NR "We are George Ohm of Borg, resistance is voltage devided by current." C3 Agentmaking Script Numbers 41700-41750 Reserved. http://web.infoave.net/~missy1/osiris   http://web.infoave.net/~missy1/nukenorn http://members.xoom.com/Nite417       <–under reconstruction http://niter417.virtualave.net/       <–under construction

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However, if I were in a school right now, I could wear a shirt depicting Satan and a band of demons devouring a virgin in the name of anarchy, that would be acceptible… but, if I were to say a prayer in the Lord’s name while wearing that shirt, well, that just wouldn’t be acceptible…

Assuming we are talking about the public K-12(or 13) school system here: 1. You probably wouldn’t be allowed to wear it 2. If you were, recognize that it is a personal statement, not reflective of school policy 3. Nobody in a school will stop you from praying on your own, in private. 4. If the school is making the students pray, then they are imposing religious beliefs which may not be welcome. It is a violation of freedom of religion, which must include the right to worship the God of your choice, or no God at all, if that is your desire. And we wonder why our moral fabric is coming apart at the seams,

And imposing the God of Christianity would make things better? Having Christian beliefs included in public education didn’t do much to prevent the oppression or mistreatment of blacks, Jews, gays, or women in years past. You can’t even get Christians to agree on what Christian beliefs are. I have a Pentecostal friend who thinks the Catholic church is a cult. It opens up too many areas for disagreement and confusion, and just puts teachers in a difficult position. Keep religion out of the public schools. If parents want to instill religious beliefs in their children, that’s their right, but I won’t have my tax dollars supporting such an endeavor. Brian

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ed, I thought the joke was fine (and the bumper sticker was right on the mark, NR–Clinton is a monumental embarrassment to everyone, but some are too stupid to even realize it). Jack Keller, The Winemaking Home Page, http://www.geocities.com/NapaValley/1172/ Before you buy. Amen!!!! And I can post that becasue I’m not in a school right now.. — Fine wine & a good woman, who needs anything more? Before you buy.

However, if I were in a school right now, I could wear a shirt depicting Satan and a band of demons devouring a virgin in the name of anarchy, that would be acceptible… but, if I were to say a prayer in the Lord’s name while wearing that shirt, well, that just wouldn’t be acceptible… And we wonder why our moral fabric is coming apart at the seams, Zinful — Fine wine & a good woman, who needs anything more? Before you buy.

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Totally acceptable, now didn’t that feel good?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I posted this a couple of years ago in response to someone looking for a good wine joke to tell at an event, but its a good one worth repeating: President Clinton, after returning from a G-8 summit in Paris, steps off of Air Force One with a case of La Tache in hand.  An honor guard on the tarmac notices, and comments, "that’s some very nice wine, Mr. President!" "Thanks, I got it for Hillary," the President answers. To which the honor guard replies, "Good trade, Sir!" Salud, Martin J. Crane

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— From Trevor A Panther In South Yorkshire, England "Wine is a delight to all the senses" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Saw an old quote the other day… Quoted without permission as I don’t remember where I saw it:  "A proud nation of pioneers has become a land of whining plaintiffs" Dave

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I agree that it has gone too far. I had a rather lively argument (bordering on hostile at times) with a close friend a couple years ago. We were driving somewhere and a guy in front of us had a "If Bill Clinton was the answer it must have been a stupid question" bumper sticker. I thought it was hilarious myself, and just a bit too true for comfort. He thought it didn’t belong in public. I made the mistake of saying that it was funny and true, and freedom of speech was an important thing. He went a step to far for my taste and said there should be a federal law against rudeness. Needless to say, we argued for the next 5 hours about freedom of speech vs. dictatorship, and never did end up agreeing.

Then I would say your friend would perhaps be more comfortable living in Serbia, where recently fans at a soccer game were attacked by police for chanting anti-Slobodan messages. Obviously, free speech can not be unlimited. You do not have the freedom to incite a crowd into killing all the (choose favorite targets), or to shout "FIRE!" in a crowded hall. But a law against rudeness? When people say things like that, no matter how valid some of their points may be, all credibility just goes out the window. Did you ask him what he would have thought if the bumper sticker had said George W Bush, instead of Bill Clinton? Perhaps he’s just a knee-jerk Democrat. Anyway, as long as we’re into telling jokes, I have one that nearly made me piss myself when I heard it. YMMV. Nothing off-colour, other than perhaps being a tad stereotypical of the Irish. Two fellows are sitting at the bar, hoisting a few pints, when one looks over at the other and says, "I know your face." And the other fellow looks back and says, "Ya know, I was just thinking the same thing. Are you from around these parts?" "Lived here all my life." "Me, too. You must have gone to St Mary’s school, then." "That I did. Do you remember Sister Madeleine?" "Oh, indeed I do. My knuckles still have the scars from her steel ruler. But I don’t think that’s where I know ya from." So this goes on for a while, as the two fellows try to figure out where it is they know each other from. Another one of the regulars wanders in, and the bartender calls out, "Sean, come over to the bar. The entertainment’s just starting." "Oh, did you hire a band for tonight?", Sean asks. "No, the McGuire twins are drunk again." Cheers, Brian

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Ed, I thought the joke was fine (and the bumper sticker was right on the mark, NR–Clinton is a monumental embarrassment to everyone, but some are too stupid to even realize it). Jack Keller, The Winemaking Home Page, http://www.geocities.com/NapaValley/1172/ Before you buy.

Amen!!!! And I can post that becasue I’m not in a school right now.. — Fine wine & a good woman, who needs anything more? Before you buy.

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<snip you can get away with sans lawsuit". Used to be that people could be decent to one another, and if someone upset you, you just didn’t hang around them anymore. Now you can sue someone for $10,000,000 for calling you a loser, as if the act crippled you for life. Nevermind the fact that if you sue someone for $10,000,000 for calling you a loser, you probably are one… I don’t have all the answers, or even a few, but I sure as all h**l know this lawsuit happy America ain’t it.

Saw an old quote the other day… Quoted without permission as I don’t remember where I saw it:  "A proud nation of pioneers has become a land of whining plaintiffs" Dave

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few, but I sure as all h**l know this lawsuit happy America ain’t it.

                                  ^^^^ Thanks for being PC Gorak

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Ed, I thought the joke was fine (and the bumper sticker was right on the mark, NR–Clinton is a monumental embarrassment to everyone, but some are too stupid to even realize it). Jack Keller, The Winemaking Home Page, http://www.geocities.com/NapaValley/1172/ Before you buy.

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I posted this a couple of years ago in response to someone looking for a good wine joke to tell at an event, but its a good one worth repeating: President Clinton, after returning from a G-8 summit in Paris, steps off of Air Force One with a case of La Tache in hand.  An honor guard on the tarmac notices, and comments, "that’s some very nice wine, Mr. President!"   "Thanks, I got it for Hillary," the President answers. To which the honor guard replies, "Good trade, Sir!" Salud, Martin J. Crane

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during thier allotted 5 minutes at Arecibo: If you tell off color, racial, gender etc jokes AT ALL then you are being judged as being Politically INcorrect. You see, when political correctness became the law of the land, common courtesy went out the door with the bathwater, we now legislate everything. just don’t call one a lady unless you have your guard up.

if (rant == 1) { I agree that it has gone too far. I had a rather lively argument (bordering on hostile at times) with a close friend a couple years ago. We were driving somewhere and a guy in front of us had a "If Bill Clinton was the answer it must have been a stupid question" bumper sticker. I thought it was hilarious myself, and just a bit too true for comfort. He thought it didn’t belong in public. I made the mistake of saying that it was funny and true, and freedom of speech was an important thing. He went a step to far for my taste and said there should be a federal law against rudeness. Needless to say, we argued for the next 5 hours about freedom of speech vs. dictatorship, and never did end up agreeing. It’s a sad thing to see that the idea of freedom is now "that which you can get away with sans lawsuit". Used to be that people could be decent to one another, and if someone upset you, you just didn’t hang around them anymore. Now you can sue someone for $10,000,000 for calling you a loser, as if the act crippled you for life. Nevermind the fact that if you sue someone for $10,000,000 for calling you a loser, you probably are one… I don’t have all the answers, or even a few, but I sure as all h**l know this lawsuit happy America ain’t it. Political correctness is just that; political, and politics have always involved power and corruption. Decency is an altogether different thing, whereby you temper your tongue because it’s just better for everyone that you do so. Political correctness serves the one, decency serves the many. I’m starting to sound like Spock now, guess I’ll quit here… Whew… }

 - NR  - NR "We are George Ohm of Borg, resistance is voltage devided by current." C3 Agentmaking Script Numbers 41700-41750 Reserved. http://web.infoave.net/~missy1/osiris   http://web.infoave.net/~missy1/nukenorn http://members.xoom.com/Nite417       <–under reconstruction http://niter417.virtualave.net/       <–under construction

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If you tell off color, racial, gender etc jokes AT ALL then you are being judged as being Politically INcorrect. You see, when political correctness became the law of the land, common courtesy went out the door with the bathwater, we now legislate everything. just don’t call one a lady unless you have your guard up. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I went to a Karoake bar last night, and was disappointed in one of the selections. The song in question contained multiple racial slurs and sexually explicit phrases, and I found it distasteful.  Did I walk out, or voice a complaint?  No, this was an adult bar, and everyone is quite capable of taking care of themselves.  But it did lower my opinion of the individual who sang it. And again, it has nothing to do with PC, just common courtesy.  I only tell off-color jokes to those I know can handle it.  If I’m with people, or might be with people, who don’t like that kind of humor, I don’t tell those jokes. Courtesy. I find the PC attitude distasteful, but I don’t let that feeling lump courtesy in with a rabid intolerance of others (that’s political correctness).  I can still be courteous to others. Matthew Initially I wanted to agree with you. But, political correctness has become such an (unwanted, undesirable) part of our society today I have noticed too many instances of people offering apologies and excuses prior to saying or doing things that just a few years ago would have been normal. No, I think that even in a semi-anonymous environment he feels it necessary to qualify all he says or does. And he’s very much afraid of upsetting his supposed peer group if any of them do not share his taste in humour. I disagree.  Although I found the joke mildly humorous, if he felt he had to add a content warning then he should not have posted it in a public forum. This has nothing to do with political correctness, just basic politeness and courtesy. Matthew A. Givens Nice little joke. Seems a pity though that you have to apologise for it  b4 you tell it. "Political Corretness" gone mad! "SchlossGoist" — From Trevor A Panther In South Yorkshire, England "Wine is a delight to all the senses" Hi All: Here is the best winemaking joke I have ever heard.

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     Mama mia, thatsa spicya wine joka!                Jim L.

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I went to a Karoake bar last night, and was disappointed in one of the selections. The song in question contained multiple racial slurs and sexually explicit phrases, and I found it distasteful.  Did I walk out, or voice a complaint?  No, this was an adult bar, and everyone is quite capable of taking care of themselves.  But it did lower my opinion of the individual who sang it. And again, it has nothing to do with PC, just common courtesy.  I only tell off-color jokes to those I know can handle it.  If I’m with people, or might be with people, who don’t like that kind of humor, I don’t tell those jokes. Courtesy. I find the PC attitude distasteful, but I don’t let that feeling lump courtesy in with a rabid intolerance of others (that’s political correctness).  I can still be courteous to others. Matthew – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Initially I wanted to agree with you. But, political correctness has become such an (unwanted, undesirable) part of our society today I have noticed too many instances of people offering apologies and excuses prior to saying or doing things that just a few years ago would have been normal. No, I think that even in a semi-anonymous environment he feels it necessary to qualify all he says or does. And he’s very much afraid of upsetting his supposed peer group if any of them do not share his taste in humour. I disagree.  Although I found the joke mildly humorous, if he felt he had to add a content warning then he should not have posted it in a public forum. This has nothing to do with political correctness, just basic politeness and courtesy. Matthew A. Givens Nice little joke. Seems a pity though that you have to apologise for it  b4 you tell it. "Political Corretness" gone mad! "SchlossGoist" — From Trevor A Panther In South Yorkshire, England "Wine is a delight to all the senses" Hi All: Here is the best winemaking joke I have ever heard.

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Initially I wanted to agree with you. But, political correctness has become such an (unwanted, undesirable) part of our society today I have noticed too many instances of people offering apologies and excuses prior to saying or doing things that just a few years ago would have been normal. No, I think that even in a semi-anonymous environment he feels it necessary to qualify all he says or does. And he’s very much afraid of upsetting his supposed peer group if any of them do not share his taste in humour. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I disagree.  Although I found the joke mildly humorous, if he felt he had to add a content warning then he should not have posted it in a public forum. This has nothing to do with political correctness, just basic politeness and courtesy. Matthew A. Givens Nice little joke. Seems a pity though that you have to apologise for it  b4 you tell it. "Political Corretness" gone mad! "SchlossGoist" — From Trevor A Panther In South Yorkshire, England "Wine is a delight to all the senses" Hi All: Here is the best winemaking joke I have ever heard.

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I disagree.  Although I found the joke mildly humorous, if he felt he had to add a content warning then he should not have posted it in a public forum. This has nothing to do with political correctness, just basic politeness and courtesy. Matthew A. Givens – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Nice little joke. Seems a pity though that you have to apologise for it  b4 you tell it. "Political Corretness" gone mad! "SchlossGoist" — From Trevor A Panther In South Yorkshire, England "Wine is a delight to all the senses" Hi All: Here is the best winemaking joke I have ever heard.

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Nice little joke. Seems a pity though that you have to apologise for it  b4 you tell it. "Political Corretness" gone mad! "SchlossGoist" — From Trevor A Panther In South Yorkshire, England "Wine is a delight to all the senses"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All: Here is the best winemaking joke I have ever heard.

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Hi All: Here is the best winemaking joke I have ever heard. First, some warnings… WARNING:  THE FOLLOWING JOKE IS SOMEWHAT OFF-COLOR & MAY OFFEND PARTIES WHO ARE SENSITIVE TO JOKES WHICH INCLUDE SLIGHT SEXUAL INNUENDO.  ADDITIONALLY, ALTHOUGH THE JOKE IS IN NO WAY MEANT TO BE ETHNIC IN NATURE, THOSE WHO ARE SENSITIVE TO HUMOR WITH AN ETHNIC BENT MAY BE OFFENDED BY THE FOLLOWING JOKE. IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO READ THE JOKE PLEASE SCROLL DOWN. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . THIS IS A FINAL WARNING: THE FOLLOWING JOKE IS SOMEWHAT OFF COLOR.  PLEASE DO NOT READ IT IF YOU ARE EITHER UNDER 18 YEARS OF AGE, OR YOU ARE SENSITIVE TO HUMOR OF THIS TYPE. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Here goes: An Italian-American home winegrower was slaving away in his somewhat unsuccessful vineyard one day, when he found what looked like an ancient bottle of Chianti.  As he wiped the bottle in an effort to get a better look at the label, the old cork flew off & a genie popped out of the bottle! "I am a wine genie, said the phantom before him, I can grant you just one wish". Glancing at the bottle in his hands, and then at his ailing vines, the winegrower immediately said, "I wish that I could make a wine as good as the best Chianti Classico Reserva in the world!" The Genie said, "Excellent wish!", snapped his fingers, and said, "now you will make wine as good as any Chianti in the world!". The winegrower looked around, expecting to see his sickly vines transformed into noble, venerable, Sangiovese vines.  Much to his surprise, it appeared as if nothing had changed.  With a look of surprise, he asked the genie, "how am I supposed to make great wine from these-a sick-a vines?!" The genie, smiling, told the winegrower that from now on he would need no vines.  The genie told him that from now on, every time he urinated, his urine would be the finest Chianti Classico wine. In disbelief, the winegrower ran into his work shed & filled a wine glass with his now crimson urine.  To his amazement, it was the best wine he had ever tasted. Quickly he ran into the house & told his doubtful wife of his encounter with the genie.  Finally, to prove his tale, he produced for her a glass of his wonderful wine.  The wife was in amazed disbelief…This was the finest wine she had ever tasted. For the next several days, each night at diner time, after his wife had placed a wonderful pasta dish on the table, Luigi would emerge from the bathroom with two large glasses of his wonderful Chianti.  All was wonderful. After about two weeks of this wine splendor, Luigi appeared one night at the table with only 1 glass of wine & quietly set it down in front of himself.  Shockingly, his wife asked, "Luigi: where is _my_ glass of wine?!" Luigi responded with a smile…"No mora glasses a wine fo you…Froma now on, you gotta drinka froma da bottle!" Salut!: Ed The Viticulture FAQ & Glossary: http://www.itsmysite.com/vitfaq "Wine is the High Priest for the Uncommon Nuptials between  the Body & Soul of Men". -George Meredith, British Author Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

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Question:

Looking at what comes out of the filter, it looks like all foam. I do go through the filter and down the out tube so that once the beer covers the tube exit, the foam just goes back to liquid. I also do not leave the exit poppette open, I just purge the pressure occasionally. If the foam is kept under some pressure, it helps revert it back to liquid. If I leave the poppette open, I get half a keg of foam. The pressure is greater on the inlet side of the filter so the CO2 doesn’t come out until the exit side. Burp, -Dan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have that option also (I have the kegs). I don’t have the filter but I like to serve clear beer, so I use my secondary as a bright tank. I know that this is off topic but how does the filter react to having carbonated beer pushed through? I would think that the C02 would start to come out on the inlet side of the filter making it hard to push the brew through. That was a question by the way. Always learning. Colin T I went to using cornies for secondaries. I actually only need one because I typically only brew once a month. For me the advantage includes starting carbonation while in the secondary and being all set up to filter into the serving corny. Cornies are real easy to handle, don’t break and I can fit a bunch of them in my fridge. Burp, -Dan Medford, NY swap net.banet to reply via e-mail

Response:

I have that option also (I have the kegs). I don’t have the filter but I like to serve clear beer, so I use my secondary as a bright tank. I know that this is off topic but how does the filter react to having carbonated beer pushed through? I would think that the C02 would start to come out on the inlet side of the filter making it hard to push the brew through. That was a question by the way. Always learning. Colin T I went to using cornies for secondaries. I actually only need one because I typically only brew once a month. For me the advantage includes starting carbonation while in the secondary and being all set up to filter into the serving corny. Cornies are real easy to handle, don’t break and I can fit a bunch of them in my fridge. Burp, -Dan

Medford, NY swap net.banet to reply via e-mail

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Wow,  there you go Michael. Your question sure did get allot of responses. Now you have allot of information to choose from without having to read ten books. This NG is great. I wish I would have had the internet when I stated. I have been home brewing since 1992 and I just recently turned to the power of the internet for help. I am no sure why it took so long for me to click into this but I did in the end anyway. I did it the hard way. I read many books on the issue. I have no regret regarding the reading but books simply lack the real hands on approach to dealing with the uncertainties that come up from time to time in home brewing. You get real hand on experience in this NG as you probably have already concluded yourself. No matter who unique you think the problem may be, there is someone on line who has experienced the same thing and can give you advice on the issue. Keep on brewing Andre

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You might include the savings of not buying a racking cane which isn’t need for a bucket. And then there’s the savings from replacement if you drop a carboy (don’t forget the doctor bills).

   Why is a racking cane needed for glass and not plastic?  Are you talking about the ability of plastic to be drilled into and fixed with a spicket?     I personally prefer plastic since I’ve had a hard time cleaning my carboy.  Although a carboy is more fun since you can actually watch what is going on.  I haven’t yet found a 7 gallon plastic bucket with a lid made of that crystal-clear plastic.  There’s an idea for any brew store owners out there.   Eric N.

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Carboys are not that hard to clean, if you dont let the stuff sit in them too long before rinsing them out. A strong bleach to water ratio soak for a couple of days takes care of any ferment leftovers. If the bleach solution does not work, bend a carboy brush into a  + shape, cut                                                            +                                                            +                                                             +                                                              +                                                              +                                                              + the plastic end off, attach to your power drill, and go to town! I guarantee a sparkling carboy everytime! Martin- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You might include the savings of not buying a racking cane which isn’t need for a bucket. And then there’s the savings from replacement if you drop a carboy (don’t forget the doctor bills).    Why is a racking cane needed for glass and not plastic?  Are you talking about the ability of plastic to be drilled into and fixed with a spicket?     I personally prefer plastic since I’ve had a hard time cleaning my carboy.  Although a carboy is more fun since you can actually watch what is going on.  I haven’t yet found a 7 gallon plastic bucket with a lid made of that crystal-clear plastic.  There’s an idea for any brew store owners out there.   Eric N.

Before you buy.

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Most buckets that are sold to the homebrewing hobby include a pre-drilled hole and a spigot as well as a hole in the lid for the airlock.  Hence, no siphoning. Some do get their buckets from restaraunts which wouldn’t have any holes. You can always use Saran wrap for a lid. Secure with a rubberband. No air lock needed. Burp, -Dan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You might include the savings of not buying a racking cane which isn’t need for a bucket. And then there’s the savings from replacement if you drop a carboy (don’t forget the doctor bills).    Why is a racking cane needed for glass and not plastic?  Are you talking about the ability of plastic to be drilled into and fixed with a spicket?     I personally prefer plastic since I’ve had a hard time cleaning my carboy.  Although a carboy is more fun since you can actually watch what is going on.  I haven’t yet found a 7 gallon plastic bucket with a lid made of that crystal-clear plastic.  There’s an idea for any brew store owners out there.   Eric N.

Response:

I went to using cornies for secondaries. I actually only need one because I typically only brew once a month. For me the advantage includes starting carbonation while in the secondary and being all set up to filter into the serving corny. Cornies are real easy to handle, don’t break and I can fit a bunch of them in my fridge. Burp, -Dan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve switched from glass to plastic for my primary. I never mastered the art of the shoulder brush. Plastic buckets are very easy to clean (soak and then wipe with a soft sponge and rinse) and as you say no need for a racking cane or worrying about how to start the syphon I still secondary in glass but I suppose I’ll change to plastic. My secondaries usually don’t last more than two weeks so I’m not worried about oxygen permeability. After two weeks, it’s into kegs and in the fridge. I’ll give the carboys to my brother-in-law who is a wine maker. No accidents yet but close. My 2. Colin T You might include the savings of not buying a racking cane which isn’t need for a bucket. And then there’s the savings from replacement if you drop a carboy (don’t forget the doctor bills). Burp, -Dan Medford, NY swap net.banet to reply via e-mail

Response:

I’ve switched from glass to plastic for my primary. I never mastered the art of the shoulder brush. Plastic buckets are very easy to clean (soak and then wipe with a soft sponge and rinse) and as you say no need for a racking cane or worrying about how to start the syphon I still secondary in glass but I suppose I’ll change to plastic. My secondaries usually don’t last more than two weeks so I’m not worried about oxygen permeability. After two weeks, it’s into kegs and in the fridge. I’ll give the carboys to my brother-in-law who is a wine maker. No accidents yet but close. My 2. Colin T You might include the savings of not buying a racking cane which isn’t need for a bucket. And then there’s the savings from replacement if you drop a carboy (don’t forget the doctor bills). Burp, -Dan

Medford, NY swap net.banet to reply via e-mail

Response:

You might include the savings of not buying a racking cane which isn’t need for a bucket. And then there’s the savings from replacement if you drop a carboy (don’t forget the doctor bills). Burp, -Dan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Define cost advantage of plastic buckets vs. glass carboy. I have just started homebrewing (as some of you know from my last BIG mistake ) and I am going to bottle my first beer tonight, but that’s irrelevent to this. Locally I can get supplies from 2 stores that have a limmited inventorie. A 6 1/2 gallon plastic bucket with lid cost me $10 at either store. I got my 5 gallon glass from a ferment on premises wine shop for $12. Then again it cost a million for an off brand 10 year old can of extract…

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plastic is usually cheaper than glass –that is all I meant –however for the difference in price I feel it is worth investing in glass for many reasons that have been mentioned in this thread already – Andre .

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On 07 Aug 2000, in A plycosamist is a very durable fish, the only problem is it still defecates in the water so that would be bad.

Filter it off and make Bud — Andy Davison                      

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Define cost advantage of plastic buckets vs. glass carboy. I have just started homebrewing (as some of you know from my last BIG mistake ) and I am going to bottle my first beer tonight, but that’s irrelevent to this. Locally I can get supplies from 2 stores that have a limmited inventorie. A 6 1/2 gallon plastic bucket with lid cost me $10 at either store. I got my 5 gallon glass from a ferment on premises wine shop for $12. Then again it cost a million for an off brand 10 year old can of extract…

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Good one Phil. You may find it funny to know that I once considered doing that. I had though it would make a good fish bowl but my love for beer was greater. Do you know of any fish that can take a vigorous ferment.

Probably not. I think you’ll find that fish make up a large proportion of the diet of the Maris Otter — Cyclops

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A plycosamist is a very durable fish, the only problem is it still defecates in the water so that would be bad.                                             TC

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Good one Phil. You may find it funny to know that I once considered doing that. I had though it would make a good fish bowl but my love for beer was greater. Do you know of any fish that can take a vigorous ferment. Probably not. I think you’ll find that fish make up a large proportion of the diet of the Maris Otter — Cyclops

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I could start the old plastic vs. glass wars… Plastic bucket have their advantages. Alnm is not being very objective.

As a user of plastic carboys, I have thought of one advantage of glass over plastic that I am sure I haven’t seen mentioned here. If you bored with brewing you can keep goldfish in them. You could do that with plastic too, but who would know? — Cyclops

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Good one Phil. You may find it funny to know that I once considered doing that. I had though it would make a good fish bowl but my love for beer was greater. Do you know of any fish that can take a vigorous ferment. Andre

Response:

The debate  really is open v. closed fermentation. A person just getting into home brewing may not know that this debate exists so it is worthy of making that person aware of  this debate. A bucket is fine for the first few days of fermentation but a nice glass carboy is best once the time for secondary arrives. I have done primary fermentation in bucket for years and still do– most of the time( and if one ever gets into wine making, buckets are mandatory).  Brewing beers that will result in a large volume of kraeusen such as  fruit beers are best suited for primary fermentation in a plastic bucket in order to avoid catastrophic fruit explosions. If properly cared for,  a bucket will last a long time particularly if effort is made to avoid scratches. I  should have made myself a bit more clear. I was not referring to buckets.  I was refereeing to plastic carboys but what I have to say does apply to both. Over time, plastic will scratch and deteriorate increasing chances of infections. (Infections can occur in glass as well and I am living one right now after eight years of home brewing. So this stuff can happen as there can be many sources of  infections. YEK but rest assured that today I will sample a few (no doubt many) of them to see if it really is an infection.) With plastic however, bacteria can live scratches immune to even to most strenuous cleaning an sanitation process. Also, you cannot see through plastic carboys and this is a disadvantage. It is nice to be able to see the beer as it evolves over time, how it clarifies and indeed whether an infections is taking hold in the carboy. One simply has to take a look at the many postings to this news group in order to see just how much of and advantage it is to be able to see the fermenting brew. Many questions are based on observations of  the process. Lagering in a plastic carboy increasing the risk of oxidation as plastic does breath. Of course lagering in a bucket is just not a good idea. So then what happens to making true lager beers when using plastic buckets or carboys?  Plus, if ever a beer maker wishes to dabble in wine making, a plastic carboy is just a bad idea. Wine made from scratch, note 4 week kits,  requires bulk ageing in carboys that is measured in months. A wine can sit from three to twelve months in a carboy before bottling. Glass is therefore a much more general use type of instrument and worth the few extra $$ they will cost as opposed to plastic. That, in the end, is all I wanted to say. We respond here on good and bad based on experience. That is why there are so many responses to these postings. The person requesting the help thus gets a wide variety of answers from which he or she can learn.  It is true that no matter what, you will always have proponents of both open v. closed fermentation and plastic v. glass not unlike you see debates about bottles v. kegs. I  have stated here some of the reasons why I think a purchasing  glass is better than plastic. I am therefor interested in hearing  the advantages of plastic buckets and plastic carboys other than cost? Allot of people get into home brewing as a cost saving measure but end up staying for the good beer. I say therefore that if one is debating plastic carboys v. glass carboys, glass is the way to go. all the best brew to ya Andre

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I could start the old plastic vs. glass wars… Plastic bucket have their advantages. Alnm is not being very objective. Burp, -Dan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – snip< 2.  You are better off  getting a kit with glass carboys as opposed to plastic carboys. The plastic kits are most likely cheaper but the glass really is better. Glass is  easier to clean, it does not scratch easily and will have a longer productive life than plastic. You will not regret to more expensive choice of going with glass carboys. You do have to use was more caution with glass however. Andre

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I bought a brewing kit and a extract-kit. I brewed that evening, and had beer ten days later. Buy a kit! It includes all that you need to brew. If you really like brewing after two or three batches, then make the investment in higher quality and/or more complicated equipment. Manufacturers produce kits to make your experience a positive one. They want you to brew "successfully". They want you to come back and continue a fine hobby. I brew much more often and brew much better beer than some of my friends who have invested mega-bucks into high-tech equipment.  They cannot use it effectively, much less appreciate the difference it makes in the beer. Always remember, it’s just beer. It’s not a miracle drug.   "Don’t worry, have a homebrew." And as always, have fun! Mark Brush

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here’s a question that I am sure will get varied responses, but what the heck. I am looking to start a hobby in homebrewing but I’m confused as to whether I should buy a homebrewing equipment kit or buy the pieces individually and put it all together. I’m told that it may make more sense to buy it piecemeal so I get exactly what I want. The fact that I have never brewed beer begs the question, "Does it really matter at this point?" So, if you’ve got two cents and would like to throw your opinion into the ring it would be much appreciated. Thanks Michael Miller

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see my post under the "need advice on a beer kit thread." Jim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here’s a question that I am sure will get varied responses, but what the heck. I am looking to start a hobby in homebrewing but I’m confused as to whether I should buy a homebrewing equipment kit or buy the pieces individually and put it all together. I’m told that it may make more sense to buy it piecemeal so I get exactly what I want. The fact that I have never brewed beer begs the question, "Does it really matter at this point?" So, if you’ve got two cents and would like to throw your opinion into the ring it would be much appreciated. Thanks Michael Miller

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Ya get the kit. Good idea. It saves time. Two points of advice. 1.    Some places sell kits that include a book on home brewing by Charlie Papazian.  Even if the kits does not have this, get it and read it as it is worth it.  Another very good reference is this following web site on how to home brew by John Palmer. http://www.howtobrew.com/  Another god web site is http://www.geocities.com/NapaValley/8304/ 2.  You are better off  getting a kit with glass carboys as opposed to plastic carboys. The plastic kits are most likely cheaper but the glass really is better. Glass is  easier to clean, it does not scratch easily and will have a longer productive life than plastic. You will not regret to more expensive choice of going with glass carboys. You do have to use was more caution with glass however. Andre

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There are definitely some things that you will use for a long time, like a carboy, that come in most kits.  If you are buying from a local homebrew shop, I don’t think it matters too much if you buy a kit or individual items, because the local owner will probably set you up with what you need.  If you are buying online I would scrutinize the kits a little more and make sure they have what you will need, because they are not as easy to return/exchange if you are unsatisfied. Andrew – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here’s a question that I am sure will get varied responses, but what the heck. I am looking to start a hobby in homebrewing but I’m confused as to whether I should buy a homebrewing equipment kit or buy the pieces individually and put it all together. I’m told that it may make more sense to buy it piecemeal so I get exactly what I want. The fact that I have never brewed beer begs the question, "Does it really matter at this point?" So, if you’ve got two cents and would like to throw your opinion into the ring it would be much appreciated. Thanks Michael Miller

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Here’s a question that I am sure will get varied responses, but what the heck. I am looking to start a hobby in homebrewing but I’m confused as to whether I should buy a homebrewing equipment kit or buy the pieces individually and put it all together. I’m told that it may make more sense to buy it piecemeal so I get exactly what I want. The fact that I have never brewed beer begs the question, "Does it really matter at this point?" So, if you’ve got two cents and would like to throw your opinion into the ring it would be much appreciated.

Almost all homebrew shops have beginner kits.  They are a good deal and you will use the bulk of the stuff for a long time.  Don’t think that they are a compromise.  They are a good start in the hobby. Dan Listermann

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Here’s a question that I am sure will get varied responses, but what the heck. I am looking to start a hobby in homebrewing but I’m confused as to whether I should buy a homebrewing equipment kit or buy the pieces individually and put it all together. I’m told that it may make more sense to buy it piecemeal so I get exactly what I want. The fact that I have never brewed beer begs the question, "Does it really matter at this point?" So, if you’ve got two cents and would like to throw your opinion into the ring it would be much appreciated. Thanks Michael Miller

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and… Many homebrew shops will allow you to swap items in and out of the kit. When I bought my first one at WB, I had them add a bench capper in place of the hand held. Burp, -Dan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here’s a question that I am sure will get varied responses, but what the heck. I am looking to start a hobby in homebrewing but I’m confused as to whether I should buy a homebrewing equipment kit or buy the pieces individually and put it all together. I’m told that it may make more sense to buy it piecemeal so I get exactly what I want. The fact that I have never brewed beer begs the question, "Does it really matter at this point?" So, if you’ve got two cents and would like to throw your opinion into the ring it would be much appreciated. Almost all homebrew shops have beginner kits.  They are a good deal and you will use the bulk of the stuff for a long time.  Don’t think that they are a compromise.  They are a good start in the hobby. Dan Listermann

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Question:

Hi Fred, Multiple everything in a one gallon recipe times 5 except the yeast.  One packet of wine yeast will ferment up to five gallons of must. Meg – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been making wine from concentrate for about 10 years(with great results)…..I usually buy the complete kit that has everything you need, …I just specify champagne yeast etc.    A couple of days ago, a nieghbor gave me about 15 lbs of fresh ripe plums.  I have never used whole fruit to make wine.  I have a book that shows recipes for making 1 gallon t a time…..however, I like to make at least 5 gals at a time.  Does anyone have a recipe  for making 5 gallons of plum wine from fresh fruit? I am sure that you don’t just multiply the 1 gallon recipe by 5.   that would call for 10 campden tabs and a whole lot of tannin etc…..

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Another thing you don’t want to multiply by 5 would be spices. Not necessarily for your recipe, but something to remember in future. (I added 5x clove in an apple spice recipe once, ended up with the prettiest clove wine, but nobody wants to drink it?!) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   I have been making wine from concentrate for about 10 years(with great results)…..I usually buy the complete kit that has everything you need, …I just specify champagne yeast etc.   A couple of days ago, a nieghbor gave me about 15 lbs of fresh ripe plums.  I have never used whole fruit to make wine.  I have a book that shows recipes for making 1 gallon t a time…..however, I like to make at least 5 gals at a time.  Does anyone have a recipe  for making 5 gallons of plum wine from fresh fruit? I am sure that you don’t just multiply the 1 gallon recipe by 5.   that would call for 10 campden tabs and a whole lot of tannin etc…..

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SCHNITZIUS), spoke out with the following whilst pondering the various ironies of life:  I have been making wine from concentrate for about 10 years(with great results)…..I usually buy the complete kit that has everything you need, …I just specify champagne yeast etc.    A couple of days ago, a nieghbor gave me about 15 lbs of fresh ripe plums.  I have never used whole fruit to make wine.  I have a book that shows recipes for making 1 gallon t a time…..however, I like to make at least 5 gals at a time.  Does anyone have a recipe  for making 5 gallons of plum wine from fresh fruit? I am sure that you don’t just multiply the 1 gallon recipe by 5.   that would call for 10 campden tabs and a whole lot of tannin etc…..

As far as I know, that’s exactly what you do. See… you have 5 times the fluid volume, which means you need 5 times the sulfite, fruit, yeast nutrient, tannin, sugar, etc. If you didn’t multiply it cleanly, then you’d get radically different results. Think of it like this: Make a 1 gallon batch. Does it come out good? If so, the logical thing to do would be to make another gallon, right? Would you use the same recipe for both gallons? Of course, unless you wanted to try to improve on it a bit. So, let’s suppose you *do* make another, sticking to the original recipe. What would you have? You would have two gallons done by the same recipe, or simply put, one 1 gallon recipe x 2 for all ingredients. What if you wanted 5 one gallon recipes? You’d do the 1 gallon recipe five times, which means you’d use 10 campden tablets (I’d use 1 per gallon myself, but 2 isn’t outrageous), and a whole lot of tannin, etc I generally make 1 gallon units at present, but recently I did 2 gallons of apple. I used a basic recipe I’d done up before, added a bit of cinnamon for character, and simply doubled everything to make 2 gallons. It came out far superior to my previous attempts at apple (due largely to the added cinnamon, plus the elimination of water from the recipe), and the exact doubling of all ingredients worked perfectly. It’s about 4 days away from 2nd racking/sulf-n-sorb, and so far I couldn’t be more pleased with the results. Just for your info, plum is a very mild fruit, and for this reason it is generally a good idea to use a larger amount of fruit in lbs for plum wine than it is for some other fruit wines.  Depending on the richness of the plums used, it is usually a good idea to use about 4-5 lbs of plums at least per gallon for wine. Remember, recipes for wine are just guidelines. YMMV, and experience is the best teacher!  - NR "The usual approach of science of constructing a mathematical model cannot answer the questions of why there should be a universe for the model to describe. Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing?"  - Stephen Hawking Proud Student of All, Master of None University NightRunner’s Pages (well… *I* care!) Tweaker of genes and coder of agents! C3 Agentmaking Script Numbers 41700-41750 Reserved. http://web.infoave.net/~missy1/osiris http://web.infoave.net/~missy1/nukenorn http://members.xoom.com/Nite417 http://niter417.virtualave.net/       <–under construction

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Oh, btw, forgot the recipe link: This is another 1 gallon recipe btw, so just multiply all ingredients by five. http://www.gcty.com/NapaValley/1172/reques12.html Thank Jack Keller for this wonderful site. He is truly the master of all things fruity  - NR "The usual approach of science of constructing a mathematical model cannot answer the questions of why there should be a universe for the model to describe. Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing?"  - Stephen Hawking Proud Student of All, Master of None University NightRunner’s Pages (well… *I* care!) Tweaker of genes and coder of agents! C3 Agentmaking Script Numbers 41700-41750 Reserved. http://web.infoave.net/~missy1/osiris http://web.infoave.net/~missy1/nukenorn http://members.xoom.com/Nite417 http://niter417.virtualave.net/       <–under construction

Response:

  I have been making wine from concentrate for about 10 years(with great results)…..I usually buy the complete kit that has everything you need, …I just specify champagne yeast etc.     A couple of days ago, a nieghbor gave me about 15 lbs of fresh ripe plums.  I have never used whole fruit to make wine.  I have a book that shows recipes for making 1 gallon t a time…..however, I like to make at least 5 gals at a time.  Does anyone have a recipe  for making 5 gallons of plum wine from fresh fruit? I am sure that you don’t just multiply the 1 gallon recipe by 5.   that would call for 10 campden tabs and a whole lot of tannin etc…..

Response:

Question:

I’d like to try making wine and I’m looking for anyone or any place that sells carboys, primary fermentors, hydrometers, tubes, bungs, yeast, campden tabs, etc cheap.  None of them are very expensive, but trying to buy everything I need at once adds up to like $90 plus shipping.  I was hoping I could find a deal or a kind soul to help me get started. Thanks, Satch

Shop around.  I use The Yankee Brewer in Norwich CT and my first "kit" was $60 for all the hardware needed to get started.  I don’t know what you are including in the "etc" category though that drives the price up. You can probably save a bit if you can find a 6 gallon food grade container for a primary.  Maybe a carboy from a water cooler, but most of those are plastic now.  . Since I started, I’ve added another couple of carboys ($20) so I can age longer, a better corker $25, additional airlocks (1.25 ea.) but not much else.  Be sure to start collecting bottle to avoid buying new ones. Oh, I forgot labeling software and labels ($50) Ed http://pages.cthome.net/edhome

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Snip….there’s your carboys.  So what if they’re plastic.   You get what

you pay for.  For the other stuff look around your home, you’ll have it. Hydrometer your just going to have to break down and go to the homebrew store.   Be sure to take up a good hour of his time because you just spent 4 or 5 bucks and you need his free advice… I thought you get what you pay for?  Why would anyone need his _free_ advice? lum

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I found a place in the Orlando Area (me being from the Tampa Area) called Old Time Pottery that carries the 5gal glass jugs for $9.99 each.  I bought 6 of them a few weeks ago when I was over there in the area. Regards, Tony Myers aka "BareCubz in Plant City"

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     What supermarket are you finding this stuff at?  I’ve got to look at a round trip of around 200 miles to find my stuff.              Jim L.

Wow, that makes life a little tougher, eh?  Our local Overwaitea (that’s in Canada, but the "eh" probably already gave me away!) carries a good selection of wine and beer making supplies, but if you have a similar chain store in your town that doesn’t carry such supplies, you might try asking if they will have one of their other stores (perhaps in a larger centre) throw a kit on their truck for you.  You might even find that your supermarket chain has a web site where you could make a request via email.  Good luck  :o) Anita — Posted via Talkway – http://www.talkway.com Exchange ideas on practically anything ™.

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     What supermarket are you finding this stuff at?  I’ve got to look at a round trip of around 200 miles to find my stuff.              Jim L.

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Yes, i use grape and granary alot, they have great prices.. especilially on the 1 and .5 gallon carboys… also, the prices for the presses are good too….. great service and responses. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve recently purchased 3-gallon glass carboys from the Grape and Granary in Akron, Ohio, for $13.95. The 5-gallon are the same price. Great prices, quick delivery, reasonable shipping charges. You can shop online at: http://www.grapeandgranary.com/ Paul Maryland I’d like to try making wine and I’m looking for anyone or any place that sells carboys, primary fermentors, hydrometers, tubes, bungs, yeast, campden tabs, etc cheap.  None of them are very expensive, but trying to buy everything I need at once adds up to like $90 plus shipping.  I was hoping I could find a deal or a kind soul to help me get started. Thanks, Satch _____ Please make a stand for FREEDOM.  Visit www.lp.org

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I’ve recently purchased 3-gallon glass carboys from the Grape and Granary in Akron, Ohio, for $13.95. The 5-gallon are the same price. Great prices, quick delivery, reasonable shipping charges. You can shop online at: http://www.grapeandgranary.com/ Paul Maryland – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’d like to try making wine and I’m looking for anyone or any place that sells carboys, primary fermentors, hydrometers, tubes, bungs, yeast, campden tabs, etc cheap.  None of them are very expensive, but trying to buy everything I need at once adds up to like $90 plus shipping.  I was hoping I could find a deal or a kind soul to help me get started. Thanks, Satch _____ Please make a stand for FREEDOM.  Visit www.lp.org

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Homebrew Heaven has a Complete Wine kit for $84.95. Visit: http://www.homebrewheaven.com (800) 850-2739 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’d like to try making wine and I’m looking for anyone or any place that sells carboys, primary fermentors, hydrometers, tubes, bungs, yeast, campden tabs, etc cheap.  None of them are very expensive, but trying to buy everything I need at once adds up to like $90 plus shipping.  I was hoping I could find a deal or a kind soul to help me get started. Thanks, Satch _____ Please make a stand for FREEDOM.  Visit www.lp.org

Response:

I’d like to try making wine and I’m looking for anyone or any place that sells carboys, primary fermentors, hydrometers, tubes, bungs, yeast, campden tabs, etc cheap.  None of them are very expensive, but trying to buy everything I need at once adds up to like $90 plus shipping.  I was hoping I could find a deal or a kind soul to help me get started. Thanks, Satch _____ Please make a stand for FREEDOM.  Visit www.lp.org

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I don’t know where you live, but in my area a local grocery store carries a winemaking starter kit (all the bits you need to get going, except a corker) for about $50.00. Let me know if you need more info. Joel – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’d like to try making wine and I’m looking for anyone or any place that sells carboys, primary fermentors, hydrometers, tubes, bungs, yeast, campden tabs, etc cheap.  None of them are very expensive, but trying to buy everything I need at once adds up to like $90 plus shipping.  I was hoping I could find a deal or a kind soul to help me get started. Thanks, Satch _____ Please make a stand for FREEDOM.  Visit www.lp.org

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Go to the nearest Kmart and get a trash can.  Congratulations there’s your fermentor.  Now go to a store that sell bottle water in 5 gal water container’s.  Congrats again, there’s your carboys.  So what if they’re plastic.   You get what you pay for.  For the other stuff look around your home, you’ll have it.  Hydrometer your just going to have to break down and go to the homebrew store.   Be sure to take up a good hour of his time because you just spent 4 or 5 bucks and you need his free advice…

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Hi Steve – the easiest way is probably to start with a complete kit, which we can get at our Overwaitea supermarket in Canada for about $54 and includes primary, carboy, siphon, spoon, thermometer, hydrometer, etc.  but you’ll neet to still spend about $10 on chemicals.  This is still cheaper than buying all of the equipment new separately, I think. Another alternative is to run a classified ad in your local paper asking for used equipment (it is amazing how many people have this stuff gathering dust in their garages!), or looking in your local "Buy & Sell", if your community has one.  We have one here – it is a weekly "paper" that consists of items people are trying to sell second-hand, and it is always rich with brewing equipment.  Make sure you know your prices first so you know if you’re getting a good deal.   Personally, I’d recommend brewing a batch with minimal stuff first, and then when you discover you love it ( ) ), get equipment you’ll be happy with.  Carboys with handles, for instance… (learned that one the hard way, I did).  Have fun, and welcome to the adventure! I’d like to try making wine and I’m looking for anyone or any place that sells carboys, primary fermentors, hydrometers, tubes, bungs, yeast, campden tabs, etc cheap.  None of them are very expensive, but trying to buy everything I need at once adds up to like $90 plus shipping.  I was hoping I could find a deal or a kind soul to help me get started. Thanks, Satch _____ Please make a stand for FREEDOM.  Visit www.lp.org

– Posted via Talkway – http://www.talkway.com Exchange ideas on practically anything ™.

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[snip] There are a couple places online that sell a starter kit for about $50.  The problem is when adding a second carboy and airlock, yeast, campden tabs, long handle spoon, funnel, thermometor, sanitizer, and the other stuff that’s needed, it came to $90.

        Translation: I want to start making wine with most of the best equipment, but I don’t want to pay for it. $50.00 ($60.00 after shipping) will get you all the equipment you need to make your first batch, though you may have to improvise a bit with items around the house (use a spoon from your kitchen; use some bleach from next to the washing machine). Most of us got started using those small kits or less (example: store-bought grape juice, baker’s yeast, a gallon milk jug for the primary, a glass apple-juice bottle for the secondary, and balloons for airlocks). If you still feel like not starting until you get the best supplies, I suggest watching the various homebrew stores and ebay until you see the equipment you want on sale (for instance, South Bay Homebrew just had a 25% off sale on everything). This could take a week or 6 months, so be patient (or just buy the stuff at regular price). -= Clogar

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<< I don’t know where you live, but in my area a local grocery store carries a winemaking starter kit (all the bits you need to get going, except a corker) for about $50.00. Let me know if you need more info. There are a couple places online that sell a starter kit for about $50.  The problem is when adding a second carboy and airlock, yeast, campden tabs, long handle spoon, funnel, thermometor, sanitizer, and the other stuff that’s needed, it came to $90. Satch _____ Please make a stand for FREEDOM.  Visit www.lp.org

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Question:

Hi, Now that the fall is just about 6 weeks away, I was wondering about a new mix of grape to achieve a new wine. I was thinking of Making a batch of Pinot Noir mixed with Zinfandel and maybe adding a few crates of French Colombard due to its High Sugar -High Acid content, which could help boost the Alc. level 1 or 2 % higher. Now the real Problem, to make 30 Gal. what ratio should I use?…Thanks in advance. — Cheers, Montreal Bob "Ode to a Grasshopper"                   – Jim Morrison

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Hi, Now that the fall is just about 6 weeks away, I was wondering about a new mix of grape to achieve a new wine. I was thinking of Making a batch of Pinot Noir mixed with Zinfandel and maybe adding a few crates of French Colombard due to its High Sugar -High Acid content, which could help boost the Alc. level 1 or 2 % higher. Now the real Problem, to make 30 Gal. what ratio should I use?…Thanks in advance. —

Bob,   what a loaded question.  I always blend wine, not grapes up front, so take anything I say from the point of ignorance in which it is offered.  Blending grapes up front makes it difficult, if not impossible to predict what the final wine will be like.   I assume you get your grapes from a source in California or the Pacific Northwest?   I suspect the Zin will dominate, unless you use a very small amount of it.  The Pinot Noir and French Colombard characteristics will probably not be discernable in the finished product.  So, if I were to do this I’d probably use 60% Zin, 30% Pinot Noir and 10% French Colombard.  I’d make the entire wine in a light style, with only a couple days on the skins. I’d get the cap to 85F for a day, then cool the fermentation down to around 70F for the remainder of the duration.  If you use barrels, I’d go directly to barrel after pressing off the skins and complete the fermentation there.  I suspect you’d end up with something that is fruity and between a red and a rose’.   Another alternative would be to cold soak the Zin and Pinot for 24-48 hours, press the juice, blend it all together and use standard white wine making techniques (no skin contact, cooler fermentation, etc.).  You could end up with an excellent Rose’ with a lot of structure.   In any case, as I said, I’d probably never do it this way (I prefer to blend finished wines), but if you do let me know how it comes out. And remember, whatever you do, it’ll still most likely be wine when you finish. Kirk

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Hey thanks for the adv. Kirk…I will let you know thw result of the first rack in Dec. — Cheers, Montreal Bob "Ode to a Grasshopper"                   – Jim Morrison

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Question:

Sean M. Vadas wrote… Any pointers, or suggestions on a filter unit that I can purchase?

If you only do a batch or two a year, ask the store where you purchased the kit whether they have a filter you can use or borrow. Most do. I think you will find a consensus that gravity fed filters expose the wine to oxygen far too long.

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I am extremely new…sediment in the bottles. The sediment also…sour taste I’ve heard that there are filtering units, both gravity and pump fed… Can someone suggest the cheapest one that actually will work?  I’m not expecting to make more than 2 batches a year of wine most likely and the…

Assuming you do mean 5-6 gallon batches:  I’d certainly stay away from any gravity fed filter system.  The time to filter is important because the wine is exposed to air during this time, and this mean oxidation.  The lowest cost system for such low quantity would be a pressurized plate system.  You have a ’spray can’ which is just like a deck or fruit tree sprayer.  You put the wine inside the ‘deck sprayer’, use the pump (which is slightly modified from a deck or fruit tree sprayer to not push the air out the bottom of the pump, but rather back up in the head space of the sprayer, above the wine level. Then, instead of spraying the wine out a spray nozzle, the hose is connected to a closed filter plate.  You should be able to find one of these in your local supply store, or on most of the internet pages for wine supply stores, for under $50(US).  At that price, it probably isn’t worth trying to make one yourself.

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please ! unsubscribe!!!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am extremely new…sediment in the bottles. The sediment also…sour taste I’ve heard that there are filtering units, both gravity and pump fed… Can someone suggest the cheapest one that actually will work?  I’m not expecting to make more than 2 batches a year of wine most likely and the… Assuming you do mean 5-6 gallon batches:  I’d certainly stay away from any gravity fed filter system.  The time to filter is important because the wine is exposed to air during this time, and this mean oxidation.  The lowest cost system for such low quantity would be a pressurized plate system.  You have a ’spray can’ which is just like a deck or fruit tree sprayer.  You put the wine inside the ‘deck sprayer’, use the pump (which is slightly modified from a deck or fruit tree sprayer to not push the air out the bottom of the pump, but rather back up in the head space of the sprayer, above the wine level. Then, instead of spraying the wine out a spray nozzle, the hose is connected to a closed filter plate.  You should be able to find one of these in your local supply store, or on most of the internet pages for wine supply stores, for under $50(US).  At that price, it probably isn’t worth trying to make one yourself.

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I am extremely new and ignorant on winemaking so please bear with me.  I made a Vinters Reserve quick 28-day wine kit thing and there was a lot of sediment in the bottles.  I was not expecting this, and it’s not like me homebrew beers where I know how to keep it on the bottom when I pour it out.  The sediment also seems to give a sour taste if it gets mixed up. I’ve heard that there are filtering units, both gravity and pump fed units on the market that I can buy to take out the sediment prior to bottling. Can someone suggest the cheapest one that actually will work?  I’m not expecting to make more than 2 batches a year of wine most likely and the time it takes to filter is irrelevant to me since this will not occur much.  I am almost wondering if you can rig something together homemade if it’s just a gravity system.  Any pointers, or suggestions on a filter unit that I can purchase?

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Read the section on Filters for the Home Winemaker in Chapter 16 of "The Home Winemakers Manual" http://home.att.net/~lumeisenman lum – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I am extremely new and ignorant on winemaking so please bear with me. I made a Vinters Reserve quick 28-day wine kit thing and there was a lot of sediment in the bottles.  I was not expecting this, and it’s not like me homebrew beers where I know how to keep it on the bottom when I pour it out.  The sediment also seems to give a sour taste if it gets mixed up. I’ve heard that there are filtering units, both gravity and pump fed units on the market that I can buy to take out the sediment prior to bottling. Can someone suggest the cheapest one that actually will work?  I’m not expecting to make more than 2 batches a year of wine most likely and the time it takes to filter is irrelevant to me since this will not occur much. I am almost wondering if you can rig something together homemade if it’s just a gravity system.  Any pointers, or suggestions on a filter unit that I can purchase?

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Hi, I made several hundreds of Vintners Reserve wines from them last year and there is definately something wrong with their winekits. I am trying to get as many responses from people who have noticed the same as you did. Don’t give up it has nothing to do with being a NEW winemaker try some other brands and youll notice the difference. All their kits have major color fall out and tend to go like vinegar after aging for a bit, not to mention the staining of the bottles. Peter – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I am extremely new and ignorant on winemaking so please bear with me.  I made a Vinters Reserve quick 28-day wine kit thing and there was a lot of sediment in the bottles.  I was not expecting this, and it’s not like me homebrew beers where I know how to keep it on the bottom when I pour it out.  The sediment also seems to give a sour taste if it gets mixed up. I’ve heard that there are filtering units, both gravity and pump fed units on the market that I can buy to take out the sediment prior to bottling. Can someone suggest the cheapest one that actually will work?  I’m not expecting to make more than 2 batches a year of wine most likely and the time it takes to filter is irrelevant to me since this will not occur much. I am almost wondering if you can rig something together homemade if it’s just a gravity system.  Any pointers, or suggestions on a filter unit that I can purchase?

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If you are just doing two batches a year, it would be cheaper and easier just to rent a filter.  Most wine supply stores around here have filters and corkers available for customers use.  There is usually no charge if you bought your wine kit from them, and only a minimal charge ($5/day locally) if you didn’t. Mary Anne – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve heard that there are filtering units, both gravity and pump fed units on the market that I can buy to take out the sediment prior to bottling. Can someone suggest the cheapest one that actually will work?  I’m not expecting to make more than 2 batches a year of wine most likely and the time it takes to filter is irrelevant to me since this will not occur much.

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