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Question:

On my last visit to my LHB store, the clerk advised that I could whip up a batch of hard cider using simple champaigne yeast and obviously some good sweet cider. I’m still a little skeptical and think that maybe he forgot to mention something additional? Thanks

Response:

that worked for me, i did throw in some campden tablets the day before the yeast went in. give it a shot! — Cheers Jerry Barkley "It’s not a popularity contest, it’s beer!" Mike Dixon

On my last visit to my LHB store, the clerk advised that I could whip up a batch of hard cider using simple champaigne yeast and obviously some good sweet cider. I’m still a little skeptical and think that maybe he forgot to mention something additional? Thanks

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Response:

Campden tablets aren’t even strictly necessary.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – that worked for me, i did throw in some campden tablets the day before the yeast went in. give it a shot! — Cheers Jerry Barkley "It’s not a popularity contest, it’s beer!" Mike Dixon On my last visit to my LHB store, the clerk advised that I could whip up a batch of hard cider using simple champaigne yeast and obviously some good sweet cider. I’m still a little skeptical and think that maybe he forgot to mention something additional? Thanks — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

I started a batch of cider with nothing more than 6 gallons of local sweet cider (from the orchard) and a package of Wyeast London Ale.  My O.G. was 1.050 (with no additional sugar added) and at racking (10 days later) was already down to 1.004 (which seems like a very good fermentation for an Ale yeast). It’s still got the occasional bubble in the airlock, but is clearing very nicely.  Not quite crystal clear yet, but darn close.  It will only be 1 1/2 months old but I think I’m going to serve some at our annual Halloween party. I plan on starting another batch while cider is still in season. On my last visit to my LHB store, the clerk advised that I could whip up a batch of hard cider using simple champaigne yeast and obviously some good sweet cider. I’m still a little skeptical and think that maybe he forgot to mention something additional? Thanks

– www.frugalbrewer.com Spend money making wine and beer not on pricey frills for your gear

Response:

On my last visit to my LHB store, the clerk advised that I could whip up a batch of hard cider using simple champaigne yeast and obviously some good sweet cider. I’m still a little skeptical and think that maybe he forgot to mention something additional?

Making cider from only sweet apples results in a pretty bland product. If you can, use a combination of sweet and tart.

Response:

Technically speaking, the yeast isn’t necessary either–you could make a good cider by just letting the natural yeast do their thing. It’s riskier, though, as you don’t have anybody doing QC on your wild yeasts. Without the Campden tablets, you’re also increasing the odds of infection and oxidation. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Campden tablets aren’t even strictly necessary. that worked for me, i did throw in some campden tablets the day before the yeast went in. give it a shot! — Cheers Jerry Barkley "It’s not a popularity contest, it’s beer!" Mike Dixon On my last visit to my LHB store, the clerk advised that I could whip up a batch of hard cider using simple champaigne yeast and obviously some good sweet cider. I’m still a little skeptical and think that maybe he forgot to mention something additional? Thanks — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

On my last visit to my LHB store, the clerk advised that I could whip up a batch of hard cider using simple champaigne yeast and obviously some good sweet cider. I’m still a little skeptical and think that maybe he forgot to mention something additional? Thanks

I’m just now looking into making hard cider and perry myself, but here’s what my research has yielded. You’re right about the advice. It’s equivalent to the instructions on a bad beer kit, IMO. Quick and dirty, but probably not very good in the end. Sadly though, if you live in the US like me, you don’t have much in the way of other options. Apples have a natural yeast in them, which I’d use if I could for a more authentic, distinct cider. But since nearly all of the juice in the US is pasturized, we’re stuck adding some other yeast. Even if you do find unpasturized juice, it will be inappropriatly sweet. True "cider" apples aren’t made for eating or drinking (unfermented, that is). My thought was to go the orchards and find some good cider apples, press them, etc…kind of the "all grain" process for cidering. The bad news is that cider apple orchards are all but non-existent. In short, I am of no help to you at all. However, I’m in the same boat. I’d like to make some good hard cider myself, but can’t find the right ingredients. I thought about using a mix of store bought apple juice with unpasturized juice from the most acidic apples I could find. Or maybe some chemical additions to fake the tannins and acidity? Cheers, -Ed Evans

Response:

This is totally doable. Use powdered grape tannin to increase the tannin content of your juice and either straight malic acid or acid blend to increase the acid content. That being said, you may not have to adjust acidity at all. Many table apples are high in acid all by themselves. They may not seem that high in acid because they are also high in sugar which tends to balance out the taste sensations. Try a base of Jonathan, Granny Smith, Gravenstein, and or Pippin and you’ll have more than enough acid in most cases.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Or maybe some chemical additions to fake the tannins and acidity?

Response:

I use bentonite when starting to help clarify, as well as pectic enzyme for flavor and clarification. Sometimes honey for flavor and alcohol. If you want my exact directions/recipe, shoot me an email. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On my last visit to my LHB store, the clerk advised that I could whip up a batch of hard cider using simple champaigne yeast and obviously some good sweet cider. I’m still a little skeptical and think that maybe he forgot to mention something additional? Thanks

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I use bentonite when starting to help clarify, as well as pectic enzyme for flavor and clarification. Sometimes honey for flavor and alcohol. If you want my exact directions/recipe, shoot me an email. On my last visit to my LHB store, the clerk advised that I could whip up a batch of hard cider using simple champaigne yeast and obviously some good sweet cider. I’m still a little skeptical and think that maybe he forgot to mention something additional? Thanks

The first cider I made was made with the best fresh blend of apples I could find (don’t ask I can’t remember what apples were in there). I used champaign yeast. It finished and dropped clear and tasted like cheap wine. I was told that you have to age it. BS. I kegged it and added more juice. Ah! That’s what I wanted. I have since made several ciders with the cheapest juice I could find and will make one tomorrow. Simple recipe: 4 gals Unsorbated juice ( or cider – same stuff). Yeast nutrient. ( commercial crap – I think it’s a blend of urea and DAP) 2 # sugar (white tried brown – no detectable difference except a lighter wallet) 10 g Nottingham Yeast  Rehydrate yeast. Put sugar into the fermentor. Pour the juice in. Oxygenate by your favorite method. Pitch. Wait – usually about 2 weeks. It drops pretty clear. Chill. Rack. Chill for another week – now very clear. Rack to keg. Now here is the fun part – add more juice to sweeten to your taste. I like my stuff slightly sweet and highly carbonated. I drink it fairly quickly so I’m not worried about continuing fermentation. It’s fridge temp so any ferm will be slow at best. I usually don’t post recipes or even comment on them. I brew to style – my style. I make what I like. I have made this over and over again for about two years. It’s quick and easy. It’s more about technique which I’m more comfortable with. I hope this helps. If you can keg, you can turn this over and get the proportions to where you like them. Medford, NY swap net.optonline to reply via e-mail

Response:

However, I’m in the same boat. I’d like to make some good hard cider myself, but can’t find the right ingredients. I thought about using a mix of store bought apple juice with unpasturized juice from the most acidic apples I could find. Or maybe some chemical additions to fake the tannins and acidity?

You can also get tannins from oak chips.  I tried this with some cider I made, and it was good.   — Joseph M. Bay                                Lamont Sanford Junior University www.stanford.edu/~jmbay/                 DO NOT PRESS

Response:

However, I’m in the same boat. I’d like to make some good hard cider myself, but can’t find the right ingredients. I thought about using a mix of store bought apple juice with unpasturized juice from the most acidic apples I could find. Or maybe some chemical additions to fake the tannins and acidity?

I once made cider from Del Monte apple juice. It’s too sweet and not acidic or tannic enough. I added citric acid powder from the LHBS and some winemakers tannin tablets from the same source. It turned out OK, not spectacular but better than it would have been without the acid and tannin. You could use lemon juice and stewed tea – in the UK supermarkets sell budget lines of goods and the tea bags they sell are ideal (Tesco Value, Sainsbury Economy etc) as they are more tannic than the ones you pay more money for. — Andy Davison

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – On my last visit to my LHB store, the clerk advised that I could whip up a batch of hard cider using simple champaigne yeast and obviously some good sweet cider. I’m still a little skeptical and think that maybe he forgot to mention something additional? Thanks I’m just now looking into making hard cider and perry myself, but here’s what my research has yielded. You’re right about the advice. It’s equivalent to the instructions on a bad beer kit, IMO. Quick and dirty, but probably not very good in the end. Sadly though, if you live in the US like me, you don’t have much in the way of other options. Apples have a natural yeast in them, which I’d use if I could for a more authentic, distinct cider. But since nearly all of the juice in the US is pasturized, we’re stuck adding some other yeast. Even if you do find unpasturized juice, it will be inappropriatly sweet. True "cider" apples aren’t made for eating or drinking (unfermented, that is). My thought was to go the orchards and find some good cider apples, press them, etc…kind of the "all grain" process for cidering. The bad news is that cider apple orchards are all but non-existent. In short, I am of no help to you at all. However, I’m in the same boat. I’d like to make some good hard cider myself, but can’t find the right ingredients. I thought about using a mix of store bought apple juice with unpasturized juice from the most acidic apples I could find. Or maybe some chemical additions to fake the tannins and acidity?

Seneca makes an all Granny Smith frozen concentrate that works well to tart up sweet juice. See if you can find some.

Response:

Question:

Many, many possibilities: I just made a porter and added some raisins (1/4 cup to boil) just for kicks.  No idea how it will turn out – maybe just a tad bit of residual sweetness?  Also, as LD pointed out, Oatmeal Raising Stout?  I’ve also heard of Belgian beers being brewed with raisins.  I guess it’s just a fun experiment. –CC

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – why? I’m trying to find the gravity contribution of raisins in the boil. TIA – CC

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why? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m trying to find the gravity contribution of raisins in the boil. TIA – CC

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I’m trying to find the gravity contribution of raisins in the boil.

It’s going to vary depending on how finely you chop them and on their sugar content. I think you’d be better off trying to calculate it (i.e., take one SG reading before the boil and one after, after taking into account the volume lost).

Response:

I’m trying to find the gravity contribution of raisins in the boil.

Heh… theres an interesting idea… an Oatmeal Rasin Stout Love the cookies? Try the beer! I’m copywriting that.

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I’m trying to find the gravity contribution of raisins in the boil. TIA – CC

Response:

I’m trying to find the gravity contribution of raisins in the boil.

I don’t know, but maybe try asking in the wine making group? John. —                            *** John P. Kolesar ***            *** Head Administrator, Monty Python’s Flying Talker ***

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Question:

I’m new so be kind. Second attempt to make a cab from a brew king kit and I’m to the point of bottling but took a taste and was surprized by the amount of tartness/carbination. The smell was OK and the underlying taste was a little thin. I searched the group but didn’t find anything that helped. Do I need to try and stir out the carbination over a period of time or ????. Any advice is appreciated, David

Response:

David, It wouldn’t hurt to degas by stirring, but I’ll also tell you to just give it some time in the bottle.  At least 2-3 months.  Kits are a lot quicker then traditional fruits and juices. So you get some immediate gratification, but they still need some time to rest in the bottle.  If you’re talking about the Cab/Shiraz Brew King kit I think you will be surprised.  I noticed the tartness as well at bottling but mine just hit that 2 month mark about 2 weeks ago and it has mellowed considerably.  I still wouldn’t consider it ready but it will be fine. BTW, we opened that wine along with an Australian Cab/Shiraz that some friends brought back from their trip to Austrailia.  They liked mine better! Relax, start another kit so that you’ll have something to drink after you finish off this one.  But try tucking a few bottles off to the side to save for this time next year! Tom

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m new so be kind. Second attempt to make a cab from a brew king kit and I’m to the point of bottling but took a taste and was surprized by the amount of tartness/carbination. The smell was OK and the underlying taste was a little thin. I searched the group but didn’t find anything that helped. Do I need to try and stir out the carbination over a period of time or ????. Any advice is appreciated, David

Response:

Jack & Tom, Thanks for the advice. I’m going to degass it a little (maybe once a month and sample) and just leave it in the carboy for a while. I have about 6 so I think I’ll start a chiante to see if that would be a little less tart. Thanks again, David

Response:

David, I would leave it in the carboy, but then I have a lot of carboys…. Jack Keller, The Winemaking Home Page http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/

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You know I did let them leave with an extra bottle!

That’ll show them! Guy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Tom" BTW, we opened that wine along with an Australian Cab/Shiraz that some friends brought back from their trip to Austrailia.  They liked mine better! What happened to the saying

Question:

I have a trial going on now with strawberries. The first 3 gal had 4.5lbs per gallon water added, the second has 8.25lbs per gallon, pure crushed berries undiluted. Next year I think I’ll use all the different fruits I grow or can obtain fresh locally to  make several 1 gallon test batches for comparison, 1 gallon undiluted (unless needed to adjust Brix or acid) & 1 gallon by the traditional diluted recipes. Perhaps I’ll determine why all the recipes I’ve seen are diluted, perhaps not. Either way I’ll be able to justify making a damn good variety of wines! Jeff

Response:

Will read your page in a bit, you have answered me in what I presumed would be the basic thought, "A Matter Of Taste". I know there are more reasons and will do a bit of research and making to answer this question. But I really think it is going to boil down to preferences in most cases… Thanks for the response and hope it does not start any Grape vs. Fruit wars… — Ben & Linda McCune Honey Creek Acres

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Exactly!!! I’ve had debates on this topic in this ng for months! See the thread: The "fruit winemaking culture" (&) dilution of fruit wines for an example of a very long thread full of debate. (Interestingly, I have also found high juice concentrations to provide better mouthfeel, aroma and flavour, and often they appear to exhibit more complexity and balance. I’m also a fan of concentrated flavours and aromas in wine and I don’t believe this position is uncommon because pretty well all the highly admired grape wines in the world are ones that have this attribute *and* good balance.

Response:

Ben, and anyone interested, Ben McCune wrote in thread "A Re Post on the Brix Fruit Chart and a question": (gal). I have made this one 3 different ways, same recipe each time, only difference is quantity of fruit/juice. Used 4lbs – 5lbs and then pure juice (was a mix of fresh, approx 6lbs., cherries and 100% concentrate, no water added). The pure juice was the best, better mouth feel/ taste/ smell. Naturally adjusted sugar accordingly, all started at approx. 1095, all used RC212.  Understand a recipe is only a map and not wrote in stone. My question, other than cost, Why is Country Wines not like Grape Wines and pure juice not solely used? Using my trees/fruits have done the same with Apricots/Peaches and same deal, much better to me.

Exactly!!! I’ve had debates on this topic in this ng for months! See the thread: The "fruit winemaking culture" (&) dilution of fruit wines for an example of a very long thread full of debate. (Interestingly, ECWine whose original "pineapple wine" thread post sparked my initial post on this thread found he agreed with my position.) I have also found high juice concentrations to provide better mouthfeel, aroma and flavour, and often they appear to exhibit more complexity and balance. I’m also a fan of concentrated flavours and aromas in wine and I don’t believe this position is uncommon because pretty well all the highly admired grape wines in the world are ones that have this attribute *and* good balance. Since the aformentioned thread I wrote an article outlining the common views on this and my position on them. This is at my webpage: http://members.tripod.com/~BRotter/100juice.htm   I would recommend that anyone interested in this topic read that article (especially if they wish to debate on this topic) for a thourough coverage, because often in this debate tangents come out which do not cover the central issue. For example, in the aforementioned thread many people debated that "fruit wines are not grape wines" and that was not the point. The point was not that you compare a Syrah’s *flavour profile* to a Blackberry’s but that the concentration of flavour *in a* Syrah wine can be comparative to the concentration of flavour in a Blackberry wine. Likewise for balance, style etc *within the wine style/type*. I’d also stress that this topic/debate is partly concerned with a matter of taste and is *not* aimed at people who are content making wine the way they make it. Some people do prefer to drink light bodied, light flavoured wines, all the time and these wines have their place for every wine drinker. If you are happy diluting, keep diluting – winemaking is a personal philosophy and there is no "right" or "wrong". But for those of us who seek concentrated flavours in our wines, who feel that they’d like to try something different or who are willing to experiment etc, then this topic may be of interest. Also, it need not be said that I’m *not* talking about, for example, flower wines where it is neccessary to add water for a liquid must. For those that can’t access the above URL I’ll provide the following (and apologise for the extended length of this message): (1) Fruit with low juice content (eg rhubarb, blueberries) often `requires’ water to be added to obtain a liquid must. However, most fruit winemakers use low quantities of fruit in these cases. When using fruit with a low juice yield, high quantities of fruit can still be used (i.e. you could use 2lb/gall or 8lb/gall) and this will obviously increase concentration of flavour. (2) Perhaps the most frequent reason for diluting is to obtain better balance – i.e. many fruits (when using 100% juice) have very high acid or tannin contents and so the juice is diluted to reduce the acidity/tannin content. Of course, this also reduces the flavour concentration so what I’d encourage is an effort to obtain better balance with minimal loss of flavour concentration. Methods for doing this might be as follows: *Sweeten the final wine (and possibly make it with a high alcohol content) to mask the acidity. *Acid metabolisation by yeast: use a yeast such as 71B-1122 (available from Lalvin) which can metabolise 20-40% of the malic acid present in the must during fermentation. *Chemical deacidification: deacidify with potassium carbonate. *MLF: generally avoided in non-grape winemaking since the emphasis for non-grape /`fruit’ wines is usually placed on fruitiness, but it is a possibility. *Blending: blend with (an also) full-flavoured lower acid wine (e.g. banana). Aside from these two issues there are some others I’ve heard quoted which are: *Some fruit winemakers suggest there is a tolerance threshold for concentration of fruit, a limit to flavour intensity. A classic to quote is raspberry, whose aromas and flavours (it is claimed) are too powerful to use in high concentration in a wine. Those holding this philosophy claim the resulting wine is undrinkable. I argue that if you like concentrated flavours *and* the wine is balanced, you won’t find wines undrinkable. *Some fruit winemakers claim dilution is required for a non-grape wine to attain it’s `wine’ or `vinous’ character. They claim that non-grape wines with high juice concentrations taste more like alcoholic fruit juice than wine. In my opinion, this is ridiculous: concentrated fruit wine doesn’t taste like alcoholic fruit juice, just as concentrated grape wine doesn’t taste like alcoholic grape juice – it is wine, not juice with alcohol added. There is a lot in the above, but I hope that gives anyone interested an overview of my position. Thanks for reading, Ben Improved Winemaking http://members.tripod.com/~BRotter/

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Question:

Hola Ricardo,   Bienvenido a nuestro "newsgroup".  Creo que este groupo es sin duda uno de los mejores en el red.  Buena suerte con tu primero vino y estamos aqui para ayudarte si hay alguna pregunta o algun problema…. Saludos, John

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello to all of you. Let me introduce myself, my name is Richard (Ricardo in spanish) and I live in Buenos Aires, Argentina. Work office hours during the week and planning to take up wine making as home/hobby activity. So during March I

Question:

Does anyone know a good source for Grand Cru wine kits in Ontario, Can.? I can find the kits in a couple of places, but the prices vary greatly. What is a reasonable price for these kits?

Response:

I’m looking for wine kits or fresh juice in Europe. Does anyone have a name or e-mail address they could pass along?

Response:

Does anyone know a good source for Grand Cru wine kits in Ontario, Can.? I can find the kits in a couple of places, but the prices vary greatly. What is a reasonable price for these kits?

These Grand Cru kits cost about $50.00 in Mpntreal. Yves Dussault

Response:

Try Heavenly Beer & Wine 1541 Startop RD, Ottawa. 613-747-2739. Web site: www.cyberrus.ca/~heaven/index.html for product & prices. Eric – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know a good source for Grand Cru wine kits in Ontario, Can.? I can find the kits in a couple of places, but the prices vary greatly. What is a reasonable price for these kits?

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Does anyone know a good source for Grand Cru wine kits in Ontario, Can.? I can find the kits in a couple of places, but the prices vary greatly. What is a reasonable price for these kits?

    In the Ottawa area the Grand Cru kits go for about $44 (Canadian funds)

Response:

Does anyone know why most of the wine kit manufacturers are located in Canada.  I know of none that are ine the USA.  Comments?

Response:

Does anyone know why most of the wine kit manufacturers are located in Canada.  I know of none that are ine the USA.  Comments?

We’re much more spread out in Canada, with our grape-growing regions fairly concentrated (no pun intended.) So it makes sense to process the grapes more – down to kit form – than to ship grapes or juices, unless you have a good population to ship to. (Here in Toronto, the ‘Uva por Vino’ signs are everywhere, in season, and there are at least three presses on my block, but that’s an exception.)

Response:

We’re much more spread out in Canada, with our grape-growing regions fairly concentrated (no pun intended.) So it makes sense to process the grapes more – down to kit form – than to ship grapes or juices, unless you have a good population to ship to. (Here in Toronto, the ‘Uva por Vino’ signs are everywhere, in season, and there are at least three presses on my block, but that’s an exception.)

What you say about being spread out is true, but I think the laws regarding beverages by have more to do with it than geography.  We don’t use much more fresh juice than you do in Canada, but there are many more brew shops per M people than in this country.  Could be the way things are taxed? Ed http://pages.cthome.net/edhome

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We’re much more spread out in Canada, with our grape-growing regions fairly concentrated (no pun intended.) So it makes sense to process the grapes more – down to kit form – than to ship grapes or juices, unless you have a good population to ship to. (Here in Toronto, the ‘Uva por Vino’ signs are everywhere, in season, and there are at least three presses on my block, but that’s an exception.) What you say about being spread out is true, but I think the laws regarding beverages by have more to do with it than geography.  We don’t use much more fresh juice than you do in Canada, but there are many more brew shops per M people than in this country.  Could be the way things are taxed? Ed http://pages.cthome.net/edhome

 Man I should say so… we have to make our own wine here! They taxe us so much that we have to keep a light buzz just not to strangle the incompetent bastards.

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Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …snip… Overall crop size was amazing, we pulled about 4 tons per acre = a long day, the clusters never seemed to end…  I believe better canopy management could have been used. …snip… Hi Zinful: Actually, 4 t/a is a remarkably _low_ yield for Concord.  Here in Ohio, as well as in PA & NY, most commercial Concord growers crop at ~ 7 – 10 t/a. Also, canopy management is very difficult & challenging with Concord due to its large leaves, short internode length, fruitful laterals & market demand for low prices. Prosit: Ed —

Ed, You’re kidding.. I had no idea concord could grow so much per acre? the berries were quite large so I could see that.  I guess I am used to the lower crop size because I have been harvesting these grapes for the last three years and the vines are still quite young.  I could tell canopy management would have been a pain, but due to the small amount of Concord in the vineyard it would have been possible.  He doesn’t exactly have viticultural experts working his vineyards either.  With a limited budget, you get what you get. thanks for the info, it will be interesting to see what they do next year, Zinful — Fine wine & a good woman, who needs anything more? Before you buy.

Response:

Go to http://www.geocities.com/winemaking/request.html and scroll down to Concord Grape Wines.  Click…. Jack Keller, The Winemaking Home Page, http://www.geocities.com/NapaValley/1172/ Before you buy.

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Thanks Jack it’s apreciated. And we agree totaly that you can’t get as good as a wild fruit . Whats found in groery stores is a far cry from what Mother Nature ment for things to be. Curious&Cautious – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Go to http://www.geocities.com/winemaking/request.html and scroll down to Concord Grape Wines.  Click…. Jack Keller, The Winemaking Home Page, http://www.geocities.com/NapaValley/1172/ Before you buy.

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I am curious as to if other vinyards have tried a reflective pannel covering  to aid in ripening where canopy management is a problem. I’ve seen it in ST-Catherens, Ont  where they place an angled replective  silver color color tarp or  I gather any type of reflective plate  to the base of the vines (ground) up on an angle to reflect the sun light upward in order to get even ripening Something like  this (the verticle bar in the grape vines) | / Does any one know if this actualy works? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …snip… Overall crop size was amazing, we pulled about 4 tons per acre = a long day, the clusters never seemed to end…  I believe better canopy management could have been used. …snip… Hi Zinful: Actually, 4 t/a is a remarkably _low_ yield for Concord.  Here in Ohio, as well as in PA & NY, most commercial Concord growers crop at ~ 7 – 10 t/a. Also, canopy management is very difficult & challenging with Concord due to its large leaves, short internode length, fruitful laterals & market demand for low prices. Prosit: Ed — The Viticulture FAQ & Glossary – http://www.itsmysite.com/vitfaq          "I like on the table, when we’re speaking,           The light of a bottle of intelligent wine."                              -Pablo Neruda

Response:

…snip… Overall crop size was amazing, we pulled about 4 tons per acre = a long day, the clusters never seemed to end…  I believe better canopy management could have been used. …snip…

Hi Zinful: Actually, 4 t/a is a remarkably _low_ yield for Concord.  Here in Ohio, as well as in PA & NY, most commercial Concord growers crop at ~ 7 – 10 t/a. Also, canopy management is very difficult & challenging with Concord due to its large leaves, short internode length, fruitful laterals & market demand for low prices. Prosit: Ed — The Viticulture FAQ & Glossary – http://www.itsmysite.com/vitfaq           "I like on the table, when we’re speaking,            The light of a bottle of intelligent wine."                               -Pablo Neruda

Response:

Thanks Actualy yes  your posting did help very much so  and I thank you. Actualy no one in my region makes concorde grape wine. The grapes this year were very small perhaps 50-60% the size of last years. Ripening was also uneven.. However this is in Canada. Again. Many Thanks – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello. First question. In our region the grocey stores had concorde grape for only a week. Does any one know if the crop was realy  that bad this year, or it is just too much demand? Second question. Does any one have a or several recipies for concorde grape wine? It would be greatly apreciated if you could please post them. yt Curious&Cautious. C&C, I guess it depends on where you are?  I am in Iowa, I harvested Concord two days ago.  Unfortunateley, I don’t know what the T/A and pH were, the owner does those tests after harvest instead of before (not my wise in my book).  The Brix was 18 degrees, and the birds were dictating harvest rather than the grapes.  Overall crop size was amazing, we pulled about 4 tons per acre = a long day, the clusters never seemed to end…  I believe better canopy management could have been used. Wherever there were heavy concentration of clusters, there was also extra thick canopy coverage with little sunlight getting through and that made for a lot of uneven ripening.  Overall I would say it was a great year for Concord in Indianola, Iowa.  I think the Concord disappeared so fast in your store because of the popularity of the grape, and some in your area may have used them for making wine.  We drank Concord wine while harvesting, as well as, other wines.  I am not a big fan of sweet wines, but the Concord was terrific. Hope I helped, Zinful — Fine wine & a good woman, who needs anything more? Before you buy.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello. First question. In our region the grocey stores had concorde grape for only a week. Does any one know if the crop was realy  that bad this year, or it is just too much demand? Second question. Does any one have a or several recipies for concorde grape wine? It would be greatly apreciated if you could please post them. yt Curious&Cautious.

C&C, I guess it depends on where you are?  I am in Iowa, I harvested Concord two days ago.  Unfortunateley, I don’t know what the T/A and pH were, the owner does those tests after harvest instead of before (not my wise in my book).  The Brix was 18 degrees, and the birds were dictating harvest rather than the grapes.  Overall crop size was amazing, we pulled about 4 tons per acre = a long day, the clusters never seemed to end…  I believe better canopy management could have been used. Wherever there were heavy concentration of clusters, there was also extra thick canopy coverage with little sunlight getting through and that made for a lot of uneven ripening.  Overall I would say it was a great year for Concord in Indianola, Iowa.  I think the Concord disappeared so fast in your store because of the popularity of the grape, and some in your area may have used them for making wine.  We drank Concord wine while harvesting, as well as, other wines.  I am not a big fan of sweet wines, but the Concord was terrific. Hope I helped, Zinful — Fine wine & a good woman, who needs anything more? Before you buy.

Response:

Hello. First question. In our region the grocey stores had concorde grape for only a week. Does any one know if the crop was realy  that bad this year, or it is just too much demand? Second question. Does any one have a or several recipies for concorde grape wine? It would be greatly apreciated if you could please post them. yt Curious&Cautious.

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Glass marbles idea works great.  I saw it on a previous post.  I am amazed that something so simple is not widely known.  I now use this practice. I have been making wine using juices from California which used to come in 23 litre containers and my secondary fermentors were also 23 litre size.  The wine juices are now sold in 20 litre containers which means I have a 3 litre air space in my secondary container.  Will this aire space affect the wine any?  Is there any way to top up the container other than buying an extra 20 litres of juice.  Appreciate any advice … thanks. Another method of protecting the wine from the air space is to fill this space with an inert gas.  Argon or nitrogen are the best gases but CO2 can also be used.  It only takes a small amount of gas to fill this void space.  Check it out. I wish someone would invent a ballon or airbag that could be inserted into the carboy and then blown up to fill the void, and not give off flavors to the wine from the latex.  Any winemaking inventors in our midst? – Mark

What I have done is drop a small chunk of dry ice (solid CO2) into the wine. Put the airlock back on and watch it bubble away.  The CO2 gas displaces any air in the headspace of the carboy. -Pete

Response:

Great idea, but how do you inject the inert gas, and cork the bottle, without the gas disapating? Also, with the cork being permeable, wouldn’t it disapate over time anyway?

Derek, oxygen in the bottle usually isn’t a problem if you’ve sulphited the wine, simply because any oxygen in the airspace would react with the sulphite, leave nitrogen, an inert gas, left in the neck. Winemaking linx & FTP, rec.crafts.winemaking FAQ, Missing Link Rovers (Mtl Que Can), firstarter FAQ, Scouting FTP & Super Scout(er), Star Trek linx & FTP, Help Stop Spam, Zee Svedish Cheff, Summer Camp selection

Response:

What I have done is drop a small chunk of dry ice (solid CO2) into the wine. Put the airlock back on and watch it bubble away.  The CO2 gas displaces any air in the headspace of the carboy.

Doesn’t the drastic cold cause a shock to the yeast? Sounds kinda iffy.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Glass marbles idea works great.  I saw it on a previous post.  I am amazed that something so simple is not widely known.  I now use this practice. I have been making wine using juices from California which used to come in 23 litre containers and my secondary fermentors were also 23 litre size.  The wine juices are now sold in 20 litre containers which means I have a 3 litre air space in my secondary container.  Will this aire space affect the wine any?  Is there any way to top up the container other than buying an extra 20 litres of juice.  Appreciate any advice … thanks. Another method of protecting the wine from the air space is to fill this space with an inert gas.  Argon or nitrogen are the best gases but CO2 can also be used.  It only takes a small amount of gas to fill this void space.  Check it out. I wish someone would invent a ballon or airbag that could be inserted into the carboy and then blown up to fill the void, and not give off flavors to the wine from the latex.  Any winemaking inventors in our midst? – Mark

Now we know what to do with all those brst implants.  Brian

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Whoa!  Doesn’t yeast produce CO2?  Why go to all the trouble if fermentation CO2 displaces the Oxygen?  Brian – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – CO2 is heavier than air, you can pour it in! Get some dry ice, put it in water, and pour in the gas. Great idea, but how do you inject the inert gas, and cork the bottle, without the gas disapating? Also, with the cork being permeable, wouldn’t it disapate over time anyway? The non-scientific want to know…. Derek Schott Albany, OR, USA                                              DOD 313f^3

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CO2 is heavier than air, you can pour it in! Get some dry ice, put it in water, and pour in the gas.

Better yet, chop the dry ice up and drop it into the wine.  It’ll boil off. -Jason — Graduate Motto: Free-time with guilt.      ftp://ftp.cs.ubc.ca/pub/local/quotes

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Buy a bunch of marbles and sterilize them by boiling them, along with a pair of pale nylons in water for 20 minutes. Insert foot in carboy and drop marbles into legs. As legs fill, so rises the wine level. Works with sand if you use a heavy mill plastic bag where sand has been heated in oven at 150 degrees F for 30 minutes. When ready, rack wine first, then tilt caboy to recover marble and hose. Paul Jean Jr. Publisher Getting Started in Winemaking by JE Underhill – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been making wine using juices from California which used to come in 23 litre containers and my secondary fermentors were also 23 litre size.  The wine juices are now sold in 20 litre containers which means I have a 3 litre air space in my secondary container.  Will this aire space affect the wine any?  Is there any way to top up the container other than buying an extra 20 litres of juice.  Appreciate any advice … thanks.

Response:

Hey Derek, The original thread was speaking of carboys I believe. If not, that is what I was talking about. It is impractical as far as I know to do this while bottling wine. Great Wine to you & Merry Christmas! Brian – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – All, I think this was mentioned but I’ll repeat. You can replace the air in the carboy with an inert gas. Carbon dioxide or nitrogen will work. What you are really trying to do is keep oxygen away from the wine. Great idea, but how do you inject the inert gas, and cork the bottle, without the gas disapating? Also, with the cork being permeable, wouldn’t it disapate over time anyway? The non-scientific want to know….  Derek Schott  Albany, OR, USA                                              DOD 313f^3

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – All, I think this was mentioned but I’ll repeat. You can replace the air in the carboy with an inert gas. Carbon dioxide or nitrogen will work. What you are really trying to do is keep oxygen away from the wine. Great idea, but how do you inject the inert gas, and cork the bottle, without the gas disapating? Also, with the cork being permeable, wouldn’t it disapate over time anyway? The non-scientific want to know….  Albany, OR, USA                                              DOD 313f^3

If you fill the container with inert gas before filling with wine, then place the end of the wine hose at the bottom of the vessel; the gas remaining in the head space will be mostly inert.  No hand method is 100%, that’s where sulphur comes in! CO2 can be captured in a balloon during fermentation, then bottles filled from this natty source. (cannot store gas in ballons, it will disipate quickly) Always fill with the end hose on the bottom of the vessel, to force the air out evenly and completely. latron clyde — edress is spam proof

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CO2 is heavier than air, you can pour it in! Get some dry ice, put it in water, and pour in the gas. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Great idea, but how do you inject the inert gas, and cork the bottle, without the gas disapating? Also, with the cork being permeable, wouldn’t it disapate over time anyway? The non-scientific want to know…. Derek Schott Albany, OR, USA                                              DOD 313f^3

Response:

All, I think this was mentioned but I’ll repeat. You can replace the air in the carboy with an inert gas. Carbon dioxide or nitrogen will work. What you are really trying to do is keep oxygen away from the wine.

Great idea, but how do you inject the inert gas, and cork the bottle, without the gas disapating? Also, with the cork being permeable, wouldn’t it disapate over time anyway? The non-scientific want to know….  Derek Schott                                                                                                          Albany, OR, USA                                              DOD 313f^3

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Glass marbles idea works great.  I saw it on a previous post.  I am amazed that something so simple is not widely known.  I now use this practice. I have been making wine using juices from California which used to come in 23 litre containers and my secondary fermentors were also 23 litre size.  The wine juices are now sold in 20 litre containers which means I have a 3 litre air space in my secondary container.  Will this aire space affect the wine any?  Is there any way to top up the container other than buying an extra 20 litres of juice.  Appreciate any advice … thanks. Another method of protecting the wine from the air space is to fill this space with an inert gas.  Argon or nitrogen are the best gases but CO2 can also be used.  It only takes a small amount of gas to fill this void space.  Check it out. I wish someone would invent a ballon or airbag that could be inserted into the carboy and then blown up to fill the void, and not give off flavors to the wine from the latex.  Any winemaking inventors in our midst? – Mark If you are wondering that you are not reading this list very closely. TS

Rhetorical question in search of meaning of life from an honest man with a valuable idea, soon to be spammed to the whole group, I’m sure.     Say, what????? – Mark

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Glass marbles idea works great.  I saw it on a previous post.  I am amazed that something so simple is not widely known.  I now use this practice. I have been making wine using juices from California which used to come in 23 litre containers and my secondary fermentors were also 23 litre size.  The wine juices are now sold in 20 litre containers which means I have a 3 litre air space in my secondary container.  Will this aire space affect the wine any?  Is there any way to top up the container other than buying an extra 20 litres of juice.  Appreciate any advice … thanks. Another method of protecting the wine from the air space is to fill this space with an inert gas.  Argon or nitrogen are the best gases but CO2 can also be used.  It only takes a small amount of gas to fill this void space.  Check it out. I wish someone would invent a ballon or airbag that could be inserted into the carboy and then blown up to fill the void, and not give off flavors to the wine from the latex.  Any winemaking inventors in our midst? – Mark

If you are wondering that you are not reading this list very closely. TS

Response:

PEI have been making wine using juices from California which used to PEcome in 23 litre containers and my secondary fermentors were also 23 PElitre size.  The wine juices are now sold in 20 litre containers which PEmeans I have a 3 litre air space in my secondary container.  Will this PEaire space affect the wine any?  Is there any way to top up the PEcontainer other than buying an extra 20 litres of juice.  Appreciate PEany advice … thanks. Hi Steve,   There is a variety of things you could do…  Top it up with water, you probably won’t notice the difference.  My glass secondaries are 19.6 liters, 23 liter ones are rare now, you could buy one of the 19.6 liter ones, and when I made five Can gallons…I think you are in bc…I am in Campbell River… I would put the balance of the wine into a gallon bottle or whatever size I needed.  Another way is to put in a similiar wine, already fermented, or buy grape juice, available in litres from the wine store.   But don’t, definitely don’t leave the air space.  The air will oxidize your wine, leaving it tasting awful…   I make most of my wine from fruit, really cheap and very very tasty… Happy Brewing   Mike.

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All, I think this was mentioned but I’ll repeat. You can replace the air in the carboy with an inert gas. Carbon dioxide or nitrogen will work. What you are really trying to do is keep oxygen away from the wine. Good wine to you, Brian – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Glass marbles idea works great.  I saw it on a previous post.  I am amazed that something so simple is not widely known.  I now use this practice. I have been making wine using juices from California which used to come in 23 litre containers and my secondary fermentors were also 23 litre size.  The wine juices are now sold in 20 litre containers which means I have a 3 litre air space in my secondary container.  Will this aire space affect the wine any?  Is there any way to top up the container other than buying an extra 20 litres of juice.  Appreciate any advice … thanks. Another method of protecting the wine from the air space is to fill this space with an inert gas.  Argon or nitrogen are the best gases but CO2 can also be used.  It only takes a small amount of gas to fill this void space.  Check it out.

Response:

I have been making wine using juices from California which used to come in 23 litre containers and my secondary fermentors were also 23 litre size.  The wine juices are now sold in 20 litre containers which means I have a 3 litre air space in my secondary container.  Will this aire space affect the wine any?  Is there any way to top up the container other than buying an extra 20 litres of juice.  Appreciate any advice … thanks.

Response:

I have been making wine using juices from California which used to come in 23 litre containers and my secondary fermentors were also 23 litre size.  The wine juices are now sold in 20 litre containers which means I have a 3 litre air space in my secondary container.  Will this aire space affect the wine any?  Is there any way to top up the container other than buying an extra 20 litres of juice.  Appreciate any advice … thanks.

During active fermentation it is ok to have some "air" space because it will fill with CO2 and protect the must from oxidation.  However, when fermentation slows down you should definitely top up to prevent oxidation.  This is very important.  I always try to have "topping up" wine for this purpose.  You can use last year’s wine or buy jug wine if you do not want the extra juice. Rett

Response:

I have been making wine using juices from California which used to come in 23 litre containers and my secondary fermentors were also 23 litre size.  The wine juices are now sold in 20 litre containers which means I have a 3 litre air space in my secondary container.  Will this aire space affect the wine any?  Is there any way to top up the container other than buying an extra 20 litres of juice.  Appreciate any advice … thanks.

OK, here comes a crazy idea that works just great. If your container is larger than the volume of wine you are making and you don,t want to dillute with water or another wine, simply sterilize glass marbles and add them to your mixture untill it is "topped off". That air space on top of your carboy could become a problem at the end of your fermentation process if the wine cannot maintain the "CO2 cap" which protects it from the outside air. Bryan Casper

Response:

I have been making wine using juices from California which used to come in 23 litre containers and my secondary fermentors were also 23 litre size.  The wine juices are now sold in 20 litre containers which means I have a 3 litre air space in my secondary container.  Will this aire space affect the wine any?  Is there any way to top up the container other than buying an extra 20 litres of juice.  Appreciate any advice … thanks.

Another method of protecting the wine from the air space is to fill this space with an inert gas.  Argon or nitrogen are the best gases but CO2 can also be used.  It only takes a small amount of gas to fill this void space.  Check it out.  

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Glass marbles idea works great.  I saw it on a previous post.  I am amazed that something so simple is not widely known.  I now use this practice. I have been making wine using juices from California which used to come in 23 litre containers and my secondary fermentors were also 23 litre size.  The wine juices are now sold in 20 litre containers which means I have a 3 litre air space in my secondary container.  Will this aire space affect the wine any?  Is there any way to top up the container other than buying an extra 20 litres of juice.  Appreciate any advice … thanks. Another method of protecting the wine from the air space is to fill this space with an inert gas.  Argon or nitrogen are the best gases but CO2 can also be used.  It only takes a small amount of gas to fill this void space.  Check it out.

I wish someone would invent a ballon or airbag that could be inserted into the carboy and then blown up to fill the void, and not give off flavors to the wine from the latex.  Any winemaking inventors in our midst? – Mark

Response:

This may not be practical for all, but I usually just uncork a bottle of wine (or several) and top the carboys up. Obviously this requires a supply of wine and the willingness to use previously bottled wine for the task. In fact I did just that the other day with several of my carboys after racking. If you think the amount of wine used will be large, imagine the quantities required for dealing with ullage in barrel aging. Paul

Response:

The Glass marbles idea works great.  I saw it on a previous post.  I am amazed that something so simple is not widely known.  I now use this practice. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been making wine using juices from California which used to come in 23 litre containers and my secondary fermentors were also 23 litre size.  The wine juices are now sold in 20 litre containers which means I have a 3 litre air space in my secondary container.  Will this aire space affect the wine any?  Is there any way to top up the container other than buying an extra 20 litres of juice.  Appreciate any advice … thanks. Another method of protecting the wine from the air space is to fill this space with an inert gas.  Argon or nitrogen are the best gases but CO2 can also be used.  It only takes a small amount of gas to fill this void space.  Check it out.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been making wine using juices from California which used to come in 23 litre containers and my secondary fermentors were also 23 litre size.  The wine juices are now sold in 20 litre containers which means I have a 3 litre air space in my secondary container.  Will this aire space affect the wine any?  Is there any way to top up the container other than buying an extra 20 litres of juice.  Appreciate any advice … thanks. OK, here comes a crazy idea that works just great. If your container is larger than the volume of wine you are making and you don,t want to dillute with water or another wine, simply sterilize glass marbles and add them to your mixture untill it is "topped off". That air space on top of your carboy could become a problem at the end of your fermentation process if the wine cannot maintain the "CO2 cap" which protects it from the outside air. Bryan Casper

I don’t like this idea. The bottom of the carboy would become a real mess. At racking, you would lose a lot of wine, or transfer a lot of sediment. And how many marbles would you need to account for 3 liters? Two suggestions: Buy a container of juice of a type acceptable for blending, and keep the unused portion in the freezer. You will have to protect it from air. Or, as I would prefer, buy one of those good kits with the juice in a metal coated bag. Use just enough concentrate to make 3 liters of juice, and keep the remainder in the freezer in its original bag. You could cheat and add a little more concentrate, if you are careful enough not to increase the SG too much. Pierre

Response:

The Glass marbles idea works great.  I saw it on a previous post.  I am amazed that something so simple is not widely known.  I now use this practice. I also thought it was a good idea until I started trying to find out where to buy marbles and then looked at the price.  With respect to the original post I would say three litres of marbles would be very expensive. TS

I have to admit that 3 litres of marbles is a bit much. The original idea for the use of marbles was to help top off the loss from racking a carboy without introducing other liquids to the wine. The original post suggested that the carboy size being used and the amount of wine in the kit were already set factors. with that in mind, the marble idea works. As mentioned by the other posts, not getting into this situation in the first place, is probably a better answer. Bryan Casper

Response:

The Glass marbles idea works great.  I saw it on a previous post.  I am amazed that something so simple is not widely known.  I now use this practice.

I also thought it was a good idea until I started trying to find out where to buy marbles and then looked at the price.  With respect to the original post I would say three litres of marbles would be very expensive.   TS

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Question:

Does anyone in this group know how to make hard apple cider at home? Is it easy or is it a very involved process like beer or wine making? I have looked for recipes, but haven’t found any sources at all. The FAQS don’t give advice on making hard cider. If you can help, please post here and thanx for your imput.

Check out The Real Cider and Perry Page at http://sun1.bham.ac.uk/GraftonG/cider/homepage.htm, and check out Paul Correnty’s book, "The Art of Cidermaking." Cider is incredibly easy to make, especially in comparison with beer.

Response:

Does anyone in this group know how to make hard apple cider at home? Is it easy or is it a very involved process like beer or wine making? I have looked for recipes, but haven’t found any sources at all. The FAQS don’t give advice on making hard cider. If you can help, please post here and thanx for your imput.

See my web page at:   http://www.mnsinc.com/moore I’ve been dieing to say that, thanks!

Response:

I posted this about a year ago, and got some good comments back.  Here goes again. This recipe was developed for use with pre-packaged apple juice.  If you’re starting with apples, here’s how to make juice.   Rinse the apples in clean water, then shred them.  You can use a food processor for this, but I use a shredder I had made out of stainless steel.  It consists of a blade about 30 cm long welded to the bottom of a 1/2 inch shaft.  The device is mounted in a 1/2 inch drive drill.  I half fill a bucket with apples, and run this thing through them several times.  Pulp the apples well.  The more they resemble apple sauce, the better. Add the appropriate amount of pectic enzyme (see amount below) while you are shredding.  This help to break down the flesh of the apples, and makes them easier to press. I also add a little sulphite, or ascorbic acid (vitamin C) while shredding, to keep the apple pulp from oxidizing.   Oxidizing makes apple juice brown, and changes the flavour. Now that you have a bucket of apple sauce, dump some in a wine press, and press the juice out.  It’s nice to have someone helping you, so one person shreds, while the other presses.  Being a home brewer, there should be something around you can bribe a friend with. There!  Now that we have juice, on with the recipe … Apple Cider from Juice Start off with about 22 litres (about 5 gallons) of apple juice.  I’ve always used pure apple juice, not from concentrate.  I don’t see any reason why juice from concentrate wouldn’t work.  Just make sure there’s no potassium sorbate (otherwise known as sorbic acid) present. In fact, I would steer clear of any preservatives except for ascorbic acid (vitamin C) and/or bisulphite)  Remember, sorbic acid is bad, ascorbic acid is good. Sterilise a bucket of at least 6 gallons (27 litres) capacity by swishing around a solution of meta-bisulphite in it.  Pour this out, and give the bucket a quick rinse with clean water.  Now, pour the juice in the bucket. Add about 1/4 teaspoon of pectic enzyme per gallon of juice. Pectin is the stuff in fruit that makes jelly jell, and apples are high in pectin.  Alcohol activates pectin, so if you don’t destroy the pectin with pectic enzyme, the pectin will come out of solution, and make the cider cloudy, once the alcohol develops. I also add about 1/2 teaspoon of yeast nutrient per gallon of juice.  This helps the Champagne yeast get started faster, which in turn inhibits the growth of wild yeasts or bacteria. Add a packet of Champagne yeast.  Beer yeast might work, but I suspect it might get killed off by the higher alcohol content of the cider.  Wine yeast, such as Montrachet works, but doesn’t seem to stick to the bottom of the bottle very well when you pour the cider out. Cover the bucket with a sheet of plastic.  This should not be an air tight seal.  It’s just to keep the dust and bugs out.  If the bucket is in a cool place, you wight wrap a battery blanket, or other heating strap around it.  The juice should start off at about 20 to 25 degrees Celsius. (70 to 80 degrees Fahrenheit) After 2 to 4 days, a cap of yeast should form on the juice. Stir this back in.  Give it a sniff.  It should smell like apples, yeast, and a bit of alcohol.  It should NOT smell like vinegar, nor have a strong sulphur smell.  Let the stuff ferment until it slows down appreciably, and reaches a specific gravity of about 1.005.  At this point, rack it to a secondary fermentor, and fit it with a fermentation lock. When the fermentation really slows, and the cider is starting to clear (in a week or so) rack it again. If you want a still cider, leave it in the secondary for at least a month.  Rack it whenever there is an appreciable amount of sediment, and bottle it in wine bottles.  (DO NOT ADD SUGAR WHEN BOTTLING IN WINE BOTTLES)  If you want a sweeter drink, add a wine conditioner at this point. Personally, I prefer dry cider. If you want a sparkling cider, don’t leave it in the secondary after racking it.  Bottle it as you would beer. That is, mix about 200 grams of dextrose into the 5 gallon batch, and bottle it in beer bottles.  Leave it in the bottles for about a month to develop carbonation.  There will be a bit of sediment at the bottom of the bottle, but if you pour the cider out carefully, you shouldn’t get any in your glass.  As I mentioned, the Champagne yeast sticks to the bottom of the bottle fairly well. That’s it!  All of these ingredients (meta-bisulphite, pectic enzyme, yeast nutrient, dextrose, etc) are available at your nearest brewing shop.  If you want, you can take this letter with you to the shop, and they may be able to give you some pointers I may have missed. If you have any questions, send me an E-mail.  I can’t guarantee I’ll have all the answers, but I’ll give it a shot.  Good luck. Steve BTW, I apologise if I’ve mixed metric and imperial measures in this recipe.  I’m Canadian, and we seem to be stuck about halfway through metric conversion in this country. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone in this group know how to make hard apple cider at home? Is it easy or is it a very involved process like beer or wine making? I have looked for recipes, but haven’t found any sources at all. The FAQS don’t give advice on making hard cider. If you can help, please post here and thanx for your imput.

Response:

Does anyone in this group know how to make hard apple cider at home? Is it easy or is it a very involved process like beer or wine making? I have looked for recipes, but haven’t found any sources at all. The FAQS don’t give advice on making hard cider. If you can help, please post here and thanx for your imput.

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Does anyone in this group know how to make hard apple cider at home? Is it easy or is it a very involved process like beer or wine making? I have looked for recipes, but haven’t found any sources at all. The FAQS don’t give advice on making hard cider. If you can help, please post here and thanx for your imput.

A good place to start is in the homebrew archives, at: ftp://ftp.stanford.edu/pub/clubs/homebrew There is a file devoted to cider. There is also the mead file, which has a few cider recipes (The Bee’s Lees). Anne Anne Dubrofsky                  /_  _|             |    -//-    

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Try the Cats Meow they have a lot of everything! http://alpha.rollanet.org/cm3/CatsMeow3.html E. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Does anyone in this group know how to make hard apple cider at home? Is it easy or is it a very involved process like beer or wine making? I have looked for recipes, but haven’t found any sources at all. The FAQS don’t give advice on making hard cider. If you can help, please post here and thanx for your imput.

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Anybody out there compiled an 800 number and/or email list for winemaking suppliers? If so, would you please post it to this board? I have a big list of homebrew suppliers published on rec.crafts.brewing, and will go through it to identify winemakers for this group if no other list is available.       Roy  * RM 1.3 02784 * When in doubt stop thinking and all doubt will go away.

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|Anybody out there compiled an 800 number and/or email list for |winemaking suppliers? If so, would you please post it to this board? I |have a big list of homebrew suppliers published on rec.crafts.brewing, |and will go through it to identify winemakers for this group if no |other list is available.       Before you go through the trouble, you may want to look at the Supplier List: http://alpha.rollanet.org/infobase/supplierlist/SupplierList.html Although located at a site that is aimed primarily at homebrewing, the Supplier List is non-discriminatory when it comes to the type of supplier (i.e. homebrew, winemaking, mead, cider) listed.  The reason why?  Well, although the name of the supplier may suggest supporting one craft (i.e. XXX’s Homebrew), many of these suppliers tend to support most, if not all, of the above listed crafts. Often this is reflected in the "Other" field of an entry, where it will state something like "wine making supplies".  Then, of course, are the exceptions of specialty suppliers (i.e. I know of one honey {for mead} supplier in the list) .  If in doubt, you can call the supplier to find out, after all these companies are in business to serve you. This list also has many locations with 800 numbers. Best way to use the list in this situation is to do a text search for "800" and/or "(W)wine". BTW, as of the last count, there are over 600 entries in the Supplier List. DISCLAIMER: The views expressed are my |        I’m overweight.  I’m underpaid. own.  As if anybody else would take    |    No one’s beating a path to my door. credit for them!                       |                           -Flo & Eddie

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